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Pogue Mahone
Angel down we go together

Registered: Jun 2002
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 444

It's really quite simple, ToyStory.

Kid's fault: Hanging around an obviously dangerous situation.
Parent's fault: Harder to pin, possible negligence, but uncertain due to unclear details of story. If they saw the kid get dragged 20', they certainly could have intervenedbefore then to assure that their kid was out of danger, and are at fault for not doing so.
Policemen's fault: Hiring a dog with known racialist sympathies.

Take your pick.

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Old Post 06-12-2002 07:02 AM
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Trollstoy
Rack the Trolls™!

Registered: Jun 2002
Location:
Posts: 243

quote:
Originally posted by Dingle
How do you think the police are at wrong here?
I’ll walk you through it really slow.

The cops have a duty to protect the public. This is a higher duty than the general public has to protect the rest of the general public. The cops have a duty to control their weapons, be they animal, vegetable or mineral.
In this case a dog was released that injured an INNOCENT bystander because a quick-release button was activated on the cops belt. A reasonable cop would not have one button to release a dog anymore than the would have a gun with a trigger and no safety. The cop Breached his duty when he released a dog that was trained to bite people due to the lack of a backup hold button.
But for the cop releasing the dog the kid is okay.
It was foreseeable that a dog trained to bite would bite if released.
The kid was injured so we have Damages.

That is why the cops were wrong... Because they were Negligent.

Get it?

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Old Post 06-12-2002 07:07 AM
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Pogue Mahone
Angel down we go together

Registered: Jun 2002
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 444

I'm sure if the suspect disarmed the cop, flipped off the safety, and shot the officer, ToyStory would grumble that the cop deserved it for not having a backup safety on the weapon.

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Old Post 06-12-2002 07:11 AM
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Trollstoy
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Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:
Originally posted by Pogue Mahone
Kid's fault: Hanging around an obviously dangerous situation.

So cops are dangerous? Or they are only dangerous when they are doing their job?

You not too smart are ya Chuckles?

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Old Post 06-12-2002 07:11 AM
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Pogue Mahone
Angel down we go together

Registered: Jun 2002
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 444

Hey Mensa, a cop struggling with a suspect is by even the most liberal definition of the word, dangerous.

Critical thinking. It's not just for breakfast anymore.

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Old Post 06-12-2002 07:13 AM
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Trollstoy
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Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:
Originally posted by Pogue Mahone
I'm sure if the suspect disarmed the cop, flipped off the safety, and shot the officer, ToyStory would grumble that the cop deserved it for not having a backup safety on the weapon.

No that would be holding the cop to a standard higher than what a reasonable person would hold a cop too.

I may be an Asshole, but I try to be a reasonable one.

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Old Post 06-12-2002 07:15 AM
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Pogue Mahone
Angel down we go together

Registered: Jun 2002
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 444

You're not trying hard enough. Keep working at it, get back to me when you have one of those "epiphany moments."

Cheers.

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Old Post 06-12-2002 07:16 AM
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yMQ
slow, takin it easy

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Texas
Posts: 1382

quote:
Trollstoy
A reasonable cop would not have one button to release a dog


just a note, the assited release system for canine units is standardized throughout almost all precints.

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Old Post 06-12-2002 07:19 AM
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philjit
Arch-Enemy of Idealism

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 13056

my dog used to do this. He lunged from the car and tried to attack a black guy once. he would bark at growl at black people in the street. It was very embarassing.

We always presumed that it was simply because we lived in a predominantly white area, and he never really saw anyone of other races, hence his reactions.

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Old Post 06-12-2002 07:25 AM
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Trollstoy
Rack the Trolls™!

Registered: Jun 2002
Location:
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quote:
Originally posted by Pogue Mahone
Hey Mensa, a cop struggling with a suspect is by even the most liberal definition of the word, dangerous.


Problem is the kid was not hurt by the actual dangerous part of the struggle (i.e. a gun going off or a person being taken hostage). He was hurt by an unforeseen danger (at least from the kids point of view). Your danger did not hurt him. Who could have known the cop was stupid enough to not have a system in place to hold the dog back in case of a struggle? The struggle is foreseen so the hitting of the button was foreseen (to the cop at least) so the cop created a danger known only to him.

By your argument it is dangerous to play in a football game 'cause someone might be stupid enough to have a rabid gerbil stuck up their ass that gets loose and bites you.

Care to try again Bozo?

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Old Post 06-12-2002 07:26 AM
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yMQ
slow, takin it easy

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Texas
Posts: 1382

youre laying a lot of blame on a system designed to protect and save lives in potentially dangerous situations. both police and civilian lives.

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Old Post 06-12-2002 07:30 AM
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Trollstoy
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Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:
Originally posted by yMQ
just a note, the assited release system for canine units is standardized throughout almost all precints.

So are a lot of dangerous tactics.

But thanx for trying to torpedo my whole argument.

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Old Post 06-12-2002 07:30 AM
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euphorbia
caustic milk - hybrid

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: behind the irony curtain
Posts: 19147

arent dog's color blind? what is it the are reacting to exactly.

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Old Post 06-12-2002 07:31 AM
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Pogue Mahone
Angel down we go together

Registered: Jun 2002
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 444

quote:
Care to try again Bozo?


Not really, no. After three days of stomping on Buttspray- the cockroach that just refused to die- I'm not really in the mood for another pet project. The truth in the matter is fairly obvious- if you'd prefer to have it get blown out to a three-page thread where I try to cram a bitter pill of reason down your throught, and like an obstinate dog you keep coughing it up with weak spin, distortion, and deflection, I'm afraid you're on your own on this one.

Ta!

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Old Post 06-12-2002 07:31 AM
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Astro74
Dodging the Issues

Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1145

Dogs see shades...black, white and greys

I am not sure but I believe they might even have a limited ability to see some color.

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Old Post 06-12-2002 07:32 AM
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yMQ
slow, takin it easy

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Texas
Posts: 1382

quote:
Originally posted by Astro74
Dogs see shades...black, white and greys

I am not sure but I believe they might even have a limited ability to see some color.



some yellows and blues as well.

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Old Post 06-12-2002 07:33 AM
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philjit
Arch-Enemy of Idealism

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 13056

colour blind does not mean you see all things the same colour though. You see reversed colours, like green is red to you, and red is green etc. So if a dog was colour blind it would not make any difference. a black person would still look unbelievable different to a white person, and their physical features are very different too, like nose, lips etc.

IF all they ever see is white people a black person is going to look different. Sam used to go mental around black people. We used to get our black friends to cll him Sambo for purposes of irony.

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Old Post 06-12-2002 07:34 AM
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Trollstoy
Rack the Trolls™!

Registered: Jun 2002
Location:
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quote:
Originally posted by Pogue Mahone
Not really, no. ...I'm afraid you're on your own on this one.


Translation: Thanx for the plunger in the ass Trollstoy, I can't think my way out so I'll just drop a few funny words and go to bed and masturbate in my misery.

Thanx for playing PM... Next time I'm in SJ I'll buy ya a drink.

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Old Post 06-12-2002 07:34 AM
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Trollstoy
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Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:
Originally posted by yMQ
youre laying a lot of blame on a system designed to protect and save lives in potentially dangerous situations. both police and civilian lives.

Dissent and Questioning are two VERY American words.

Or didn't they teach you that in The Peoples Republic of Texas School System?

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Old Post 06-12-2002 07:36 AM
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euphorbia
caustic milk - hybrid

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: behind the irony curtain
Posts: 19147

Dogs can see color, but when you hear people say that dogs are color-blind, it is somewhat accurate. Most people's vision is trichromatic or capable of three-color variations. This means that most humans have three kinds of color cells, with three different receptor molecules sensitive to blue, greenish-yellow, and red. Color-blind people are similar to dogs and are often dichromatic or only can distinguish two color variations. Dogs only have color receptors in their retinas for yellow and blue-violet. Dogs can pick out the colors blue-violet and yellow. They can also differentiate between shades of gray. Dogs have trouble is telling the different between green, yellow, orange and red. They also have difficulty distinguishing the difference between grays and greens.

Canine eyes are also are different from humans because they lack the fovea which is an area especially dense with detail-sensing cells. This means that their detail vision is not as good as ours. Your dog will recognize you much more quickly when you move in a way unique to you or by smell or hearing. The number of rods in the retina enable dogs see moving objects much better than they do stationary objects. This lets you know why hand signals and posture can be so important in training your dog. In addition, remember that dogs are predators.

Humans and dogs are both predator species, but human eyes are set straight forward. Dogs eyes are set on about a 20 degree-angle to enable them to have a wider filed of vision than humans but not as great as prey such as a bird. Prey species have their eyes set on the sides of their head to allow them to see approaching predators with a large field of vision. The set of dog's eyes determines the amount of field of view and depth perception. Expect you dog to have better peripheral vision than you.

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Old Post 06-12-2002 07:37 AM
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Astro74
Dodging the Issues

Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1145

Also I noticed some dogs will react differently to kids.

I had a german shepard and hated kids. Sadly he was raised around my then step-brother. Yet he still did not like him. Alot of effort was made to help the dog adjust to Anthony when he came to visit. My dog never did take a bite out of him but you can just see he wanted to.

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Old Post 06-12-2002 07:37 AM
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Pogue Mahone
Angel down we go together

Registered: Jun 2002
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 444

~yawn~ Yeah, sure, whatever.

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Old Post 06-12-2002 07:37 AM
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yMQ
slow, takin it easy

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Texas
Posts: 1382

oh wow, you really got me there. flamed for showing the lack of education in your "whole argument". what ever will i do? i think i feel as bad as PM must feel.

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Old Post 06-12-2002 07:38 AM
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Pogue Mahone
Angel down we go together

Registered: Jun 2002
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 444

Believe me, I'm inconsolable.

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Old Post 06-12-2002 07:40 AM
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yMQ
slow, takin it easy

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Texas
Posts: 1382

i feel your pain, friend flamee.

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Old Post 06-12-2002 07:41 AM
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