The Asylum   Search Private Messages Options Blogs Images Chat Cam Portals Calendar FAQ's Join  
Asylum Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.8 Asylum Forums > The Lost Forum > police dog accused of racial profiling-leading to calls that the canine be killed.
Pages (5): « 1 2 [3] 4 5 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread [new thread]    [post reply]
philjit
Arch-Enemy of Idealism

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 13056

BTW, I don't believe that the dog actually 'hates' other races. The idea that a dog has conscious thought is too me a joke, they don't. They can be trained to attack particular racial groups I guess, or they could simply react to something they are not familiar with, but hate is the wrong word

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-12-2002 07:42 AM
philjit is offline Click Here to See the Profile for philjit Click here to Send philjit a Private Message Find more posts by philjit Add philjit to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Dingle
Gay for Mugtoe

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 12791

quote:
Originally posted by Trollstoy
I’ll walk you through it really slow.

The cops have a duty to protect the public. This is a higher duty than the general public has to protect the rest of the general public. The cops have a duty to control their weapons, be they animal, vegetable or mineral.
In this case a dog was released that injured an INNOCENT bystander because a quick-release button was activated on the cops belt. A reasonable cop would not have one button to release a dog anymore than the would have a gun with a trigger and no safety. The cop Breached his duty when he released a dog that was trained to bite people due to the lack of a backup hold button.
But for the cop releasing the dog the kid is okay.
It was foreseeable that a dog trained to bite would bite if released.
The kid was injured so we have Damages.

That is why the cops were wrong... Because they were Negligent.

Get it?



i understand a bit better now, although i dont agree. i thought you were arguing that it was the COPS fault that the dog attacked the wrong person.

so, now that it's established that the cops blunder was accidentally releasing the door (the bastard should go to the chair, how dare he!!?!!), what if criminal A was kicking his ass and he had intentionally released the door and the same thing happened?

__________________
Idle hands spend time at the genitals.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-12-2002 07:45 AM
Dingle is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Dingle Click here to Send Dingle a Private Message Find more posts by Dingle Add Dingle to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Dingle
Gay for Mugtoe

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 12791

quote:
Originally posted by Phil
The idea that a dog has conscious thought is too me a joke


so, are you drunk or high or stupid or a combination?

i can't believe you meant that to come out that way. i dont believe a dog is capable of prejidiced, but youre saying a dog acts solely on instinct like a fucking mosquito? come on!

__________________
Idle hands spend time at the genitals.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-12-2002 07:48 AM
Dingle is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Dingle Click here to Send Dingle a Private Message Find more posts by Dingle Add Dingle to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
yMQ
slow, takin it easy

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Texas
Posts: 1382

i think he was referring to ability of concious thought akin to the level we enjoy.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-12-2002 07:50 AM
yMQ is offline Click Here to See the Profile for yMQ Click here to Send yMQ a Private Message Find more posts by yMQ Add yMQ to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Astro74
Dodging the Issues

Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1145

quote:
Originally posted by Trollstoy
I’ll walk you through it really slow.

The cops have a duty to protect the public. This is a higher duty than the general public has to protect the rest of the general public. The cops have a duty to control their weapons, be they animal, vegetable or mineral.
In this case a dog was released that injured an INNOCENT bystander because a quick-release button was activated on the cops belt. A reasonable cop would not have one button to release a dog anymore than the would have a gun with a trigger and no safety. The cop Breached his duty when he released a dog that was trained to bite people due to the lack of a backup hold button.
But for the cop releasing the dog the kid is okay.
It was foreseeable that a dog trained to bite would bite if released.
The kid was injured so we have Damages.

That is why the cops were wrong... Because they were Negligent.

Get it?



I just want to point out that you said the cop breached his duty by releaseing the dog.

Well please read the article again. There is no mention of the cop pressing the button. That is an assumption made by you in an attempt to place blame on the cop. Little do we now that during the scuffle that the perp himself accidently could have released the dog. Also there is a possiblity that while wrestling on the ground the button was pressed. Factors in which we do not know.

Also we do not know what is going on during the scuffle and what the child was doing. Maybe the child was running towards the scene and the dog took it as an act of aggression. I do not know and neither do you.

When making an argument as such. Try not to make an assumption such as that to prove what little point youhave.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-12-2002 07:51 AM
Astro74 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Astro74 Click here to Send Astro74 a Private Message Find more posts by Astro74 Add Astro74 to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Trollstoy
Rack the Trolls™!

Registered: Jun 2002
Location:
Posts: 243

You two are idiots if you think the kid is contributorily negligent even 1%.
and since contributory negligence=fault, he is not even 1% at fault.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-12-2002 07:53 AM
Trollstoy is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Trollstoy Click here to Send Trollstoy a Private Message Find more posts by Trollstoy Add Trollstoy to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Dingle
Gay for Mugtoe

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 12791

quote:
Originally posted by Trollstoy
You two are idiots if you think the kid is contributorily negligent even 1%.
and since contributory negligence=fault, he is not even 1% at fault.



but youre not an idiot for thinking the cops are 100% at fault?

__________________
Idle hands spend time at the genitals.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-12-2002 07:55 AM
Dingle is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Dingle Click here to Send Dingle a Private Message Find more posts by Dingle Add Dingle to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Trollstoy
Rack the Trolls™!

Registered: Jun 2002
Location:
Posts: 243

quote:
Originally posted by Dingle


i understand a bit better now, although i dont agree. i thought you were arguing that it was the COPS fault that the dog attacked the wrong person.


No only that it was the cops fault the dog Could attack the wrong person.

Although it was more likely that a dog trained to bite will bite.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-12-2002 07:56 AM
Trollstoy is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Trollstoy Click here to Send Trollstoy a Private Message Find more posts by Trollstoy Add Trollstoy to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Trollstoy
Rack the Trolls™!

Registered: Jun 2002
Location:
Posts: 243

quote:
Originally posted by Astro74
I just want to point out that you said the cop breached his duty by releasing the dog.
Not that he did it intentionally. This is Negligence. "He released/or caused to be released" may be better for those unfamiliar with this concept.

Well please read the article again...Factors in which we do not know.
Also we do not know...I do not know and neither do you.

True enough. but with the facts we have, my argument holds water.

When making an argument as such. Try not to make an assumption such as that to prove what little point you have.

I think if you will read more carefully you will see I have bigger point than you.



War Mine is Bigger than Yours Smack


I don't think the cop is 100% to blame I think The Perp is right up there, but then there is Joint and Severable Liability... but that is for a different thread.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-12-2002 08:04 AM
Trollstoy is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Trollstoy Click here to Send Trollstoy a Private Message Find more posts by Trollstoy Add Trollstoy to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Dingle
Gay for Mugtoe

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 12791

quote:
Originally posted by Trollstoy

Although it was more likely that a dog trained to bite will bite.



would you prefer if they were trained to give blowjobs and backrubs to fleeing criminals?

__________________
Idle hands spend time at the genitals.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-12-2002 08:06 AM
Dingle is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Dingle Click here to Send Dingle a Private Message Find more posts by Dingle Add Dingle to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Astro74
Dodging the Issues

Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1145

Oh so apprehending a criminal was him causing the dog to be released?

Makes sense. Then if that is the case then why not hold the perp responsible for fighting with the officer. I mean he created the situation for being the criminal in the first place. Secondly he resisted arrest which lead to the incident at hand. Yet we will not hold him responsible for these actions when his actions directly resulted in the harm of the little boy.

Assumptins do not convict and they do not hold water in an argument. All was said that the button was accidently pressed to release the dog. There are factors missing to show how it happened.

Your point is solely based on an assumption that the cop released this war monger of a dog on the people of his community. For all we know the criminal released him on that little boy.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-12-2002 08:11 AM
Astro74 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Astro74 Click here to Send Astro74 a Private Message Find more posts by Astro74 Add Astro74 to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Astro74
Dodging the Issues

Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1145

quote:
Originally posted by Dingle


would you prefer if they were trained to give blowjobs and backrubs to fleeing criminals?



sounds like something you would enjoy.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-12-2002 08:12 AM
Astro74 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Astro74 Click here to Send Astro74 a Private Message Find more posts by Astro74 Add Astro74 to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Trollstoy
Rack the Trolls™!

Registered: Jun 2002
Location:
Posts: 243

quote:
Originally posted by Dingle
would you prefer if they were trained to give blowjobs and backrubs to fleeing criminals?

No more than I want cops to carry dildos instead of guns, or have no safeties on said guns.

Lights yet?

Last edited by Trollstoy on 06-12-2002 at 08:28 AM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-12-2002 08:15 AM
Trollstoy is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Trollstoy Click here to Send Trollstoy a Private Message Find more posts by Trollstoy Add Trollstoy to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Trollstoy
Rack the Trolls™!

Registered: Jun 2002
Location:
Posts: 243

To answer your query. He was apprehending a criminal WHEN he caused the dog to be released. He might not have hit the button, but he set up a situation where ANY time he went hand to hand with a perp the dog could be released with the push of a button. He had a duty to make this situation safer (or his boss did). Get it?
And the perp IS responsible, but I never said he wasn’t.
And it only matters how it happened to the extent that a reasonable person could look at it and say:
"If there is only one button any fight could release the dog
And
The dog might bite a bystander if the dog is trained to bite
And the cop could not control the dog ‘cause he was fighting a perp."
And it doesn’t matter if the perp did or didn’t push the button he is liable too because he created the situation too.

Should we do Joint and several liability too?

~~
Hee hee He said Joint Hee hee

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-12-2002 08:27 AM
Trollstoy is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Trollstoy Click here to Send Trollstoy a Private Message Find more posts by Trollstoy Add Trollstoy to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
philjit
Arch-Enemy of Idealism

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 13056

animals do not 'consciosuly think' (excluding primates) about what they are doing was my point Dingle. So an animal cannot consciously think 'I hate those niggers'. That is what I meant. They have no self-awareness.

Last edited by philjit on 06-12-2002 at 08:51 AM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-12-2002 08:43 AM
philjit is offline Click Here to See the Profile for philjit Click here to Send philjit a Private Message Find more posts by philjit Add philjit to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
philjit
Arch-Enemy of Idealism

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 13056

There was this guy once that had what was called 'consciousness blindness' on his right hand side. This meant that anything happening in his right hand vision he was not aware of, his eyes worked fines, but his brain did not tell his consciousness it was there. An experiment was performed where he sat him down in a darkened room facing a wall and they began by covering his right eye. They then used one of tose laser pointer thingies on the wall. They asked him to move his arm in the shape they draw on the wall. They drew a circle and he drew a circle with his arm etc etc

Then the put the patch on his left eye. They had him rigged up to a brain thingyjig and all that shit and had established pregviously that he was effectively blind. He was not 'aware' of being able to see anything. This time they draw shapes on the wall again. He was still able to redraw them with his arm yet he had no self awareness of how he knew.

Excluding primates the lower animal in the animal kingodm live their lives like this. They are able to move eat sleep do stuff but they have no self-awareness. This is why if you put a dog or cat infront of the mirror they will look behind the mirror for the other cat or dog. They have no self knoweldge of their own existance, so the notion of awareness of emotions like 'hate' is not something they are capable of. That doesn't make them necessarily less intelligent, but they are not self-aware.

Cogito ergo sum

This was my point Dingle.

Last edited by philjit on 06-12-2002 at 09:17 AM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-12-2002 09:09 AM
philjit is offline Click Here to See the Profile for philjit Click here to Send philjit a Private Message Find more posts by philjit Add philjit to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Smug Git
Arrogance Personified

Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Hilbert Space
Posts: 36297

There is no way that a police dog that attacked people whom it wasn't commanded to attack would be kept on the force over here; the black and white thing seems odd, but if it bit a kid with no orders to do so, it would at least get taken out of police service. If my (hypothetical) dog attacked a kid in public, it would probably get put down.

Mant arrest scenes don't look like arrest scenes until the arrest actually happens, so the parents need not be at fault, particularly. Additionally, bad parenting is still not sufficient reasoning to declare free season on the kid of said parents (else we oculd have used that to weed out nearly all the arsehole kids from schools).

The racial thing seems to be a red herring though (although I should have thought that it was possible to train a dog to attack people of a certain colour, is there any real evidence that it happened?)

__________________
I want to live and I want to love
I want to catch something that I might be ashamed of

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-12-2002 09:12 AM
Smug Git is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Smug Git Click here to Send Smug Git a Private Message Find more posts by Smug Git Add Smug Git to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Smug Git
Arrogance Personified

Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Hilbert Space
Posts: 36297

quote:
Originally posted by Phil
'I hate those niggers'. That is what I meant. They have no self-awareness.


I can only apologise for the rascism of my compatriot.

__________________
I want to live and I want to love
I want to catch something that I might be ashamed of

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-12-2002 09:15 AM
Smug Git is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Smug Git Click here to Send Smug Git a Private Message Find more posts by Smug Git Add Smug Git to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
philjit
Arch-Enemy of Idealism

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 13056

quote:
Originally posted by Smug Git
I can only apologise for the rascism of my compatriot.


hah

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-12-2002 09:17 AM
philjit is offline Click Here to See the Profile for philjit Click here to Send philjit a Private Message Find more posts by philjit Add philjit to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
philjit
Arch-Enemy of Idealism

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 13056

btw, on reading that again, I think the dog would be put to sleep here anyway because it attacked a nine year old kid. The skin colour ios irrelevant really.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-12-2002 09:32 AM
philjit is offline Click Here to See the Profile for philjit Click here to Send philjit a Private Message Find more posts by philjit Add philjit to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
skalie
Locksmith of Lurve

Registered: Sep 2001
Location: World Citizen
Posts: 18916

Knew a staffordshire once that liked to bite Samoans, causing no end of uncomfortable situations, i.e. a quick dog walk turning into a run for your life situation.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-12-2002 09:46 AM
skalie is offline Click Here to See the Profile for skalie Click here to Send skalie a Private Message Find more posts by skalie Add skalie to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
euphorbia
caustic milk - hybrid

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: behind the irony curtain
Posts: 19147

the dog saw someone he had a relationship with being attacked (or in a scuffle) and acted in a protective manner though he mistaked one of the people standing around as a threat. The dog shouldn’t die for that.

__________________
taste the fucking rainbow & dont touch my junk.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-12-2002 09:46 AM
euphorbia is offline Click Here to See the Profile for euphorbia Click here to Send euphorbia a Private Message Visit euphorbia's homepage! Find more posts by euphorbia Add euphorbia to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
skalie
Locksmith of Lurve

Registered: Sep 2001
Location: World Citizen
Posts: 18916

quote:
Originally posted by euphorbia
the dog saw someone he had a relationship with being attacked (or in a scuffle) and acted in a protective manner though he mistaked one of the people standing around as a threat. The dog shouldn’t die for that.


The dog dragged a nine-year old for twenty feet.

What else it it capable of?

Death penalty.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-12-2002 09:49 AM
skalie is offline Click Here to See the Profile for skalie Click here to Send skalie a Private Message Find more posts by skalie Add skalie to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
euphorbia
caustic milk - hybrid

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: behind the irony curtain
Posts: 19147

quote:
Originally posted by skalie


The dog dragged a nine-year old for twenty feet.

What else it it capable of?

Death penalty.



You can tell a lot about a person by how they treat animals. Cheers.

__________________
taste the fucking rainbow & dont touch my junk.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-12-2002 09:53 AM
euphorbia is offline Click Here to See the Profile for euphorbia Click here to Send euphorbia a Private Message Visit euphorbia's homepage! Find more posts by euphorbia Add euphorbia to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
skalie
Locksmith of Lurve

Registered: Sep 2001
Location: World Citizen
Posts: 18916

You can tell a lot about an animal by how they treat humans.

I'm not saying the animal is completely at fault, whoever trained it should also be put down.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-12-2002 09:55 AM
skalie is offline Click Here to See the Profile for skalie Click here to Send skalie a Private Message Find more posts by skalie Add skalie to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:45 AM. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (5): « 1 2 [3] 4 5 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this Thread

Forum Jump:
 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 

< Contact Us - The Asylum >

Copyright © 2014- Imaginet Inc.
[Legal Notice] | [Privacy Policy] | [Site Index]