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tack
jackaroo

Registered: Aug 2000
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I was making fun of christians, not making a point

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Old Post 04-15-2004 03:16 PM
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Caffeine
Caffeine

Registered: Aug 2000
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Right you are tack, right... you... are.

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Old Post 04-15-2004 03:17 PM
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Mugtoe
Scarred for Life

Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:
Originally posted by Coincidence
And we get all your TV shows...


If that is where you get yer perception of the mindset of the American electorate, it's no wonder why you posted this thread. Also, you likely wouldn't be getting the programming if there wasn't a market for it in yer country. I've traveled in Europe a few times, both recently and in the past, and I never found the average European to be in any great degree more enlightened than the average American. I was dropped off by a taxi in the middle of a Communist riot in Rome in '81 (that was right after the Prime Minister was kidnapped and kneecapped by the radical opposition, yes?), and I didn't find the level of discourse among those Italians to be any more civilized or intellectual than what I see in my own country. I tried my best to look German and slipped into the Forum to get away from the people burning American flags and effigies of Reagan under the watchful gaze of the soldiers with the water cannon on the van. I don't think any of those people would have cared for an honest exchange of ideas or be interested in really knowing about my country before they formed their opinions. What makes them so much better in your opinion than me and my countrymen?

If Europe is so enlightened, why did it only a generation ago try to commit collective suicide? I'd be more apt to believe that it is simply worn out from fratricide and bitter that its successors don't take its feelings more into account. We are in large measure all from the same stock anyway.

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quote:
Originally posted by Smug Git
The brotherhood of melon loving will save us all, I am sure of it.

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Old Post 04-15-2004 03:23 PM
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Smug Git
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A generation ago? Collective suicide? Can I have some of what you're drinking?

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Old Post 04-15-2004 03:26 PM
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CHiPsJr
Ginger-headed Troll

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Kansas City
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quote:
Originally posted by tack
I was making fun of christians, not making a point


Mugtoe's response is applicable either way.

I can't be a Christian myself, but I am increasingly appreciative of the fact that SINCERE Christians are overwhelmingly more courteous and generous towards other people than my fellow agnostics are.

There are worse things in the world than people who live according to rigid ethical standards and treat others as they themselves want to be treated.

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Old Post 04-15-2004 03:26 PM
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Mugtoe
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okay, so sixty years is a bit more than a generation, technically, but it was my dad's era, so it almost works. but I'll stand by the rest of it. the entire last century was an example in some ways of how progressive political theory forced on populations from the top down is often genocidal in its outcomes.

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quote:
Originally posted by Smug Git
The brotherhood of melon loving will save us all, I am sure of it.

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Old Post 04-15-2004 03:29 PM
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Mugtoe
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I would call two world wars of largely European origin, coupled with the Stalinist purges and Spanish Civil War something more than just strident political activity.

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quote:
Originally posted by Smug Git
The brotherhood of melon loving will save us all, I am sure of it.

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Old Post 04-15-2004 03:30 PM
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Caffeine
Caffeine

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quote:
Originally posted by CHiPsJr

I can't be a Christian myself, but I am increasingly appreciative of the fact that SINCERE Christians are overwhelmingly more courteous and generous towards other people than my fellow agnostics are.



I don't know, I find it difficult to have conversations with people who think I'm spending an eternity in hell.

In my experiences I've met much kinder agnostics than christians, though that was probably just chance.

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Old Post 04-15-2004 03:34 PM
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Smug Git
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quote:
Originally posted by Mugtoe
I would call two world wars of largely European origin, coupled with the Stalinist purges and Spanish Civil War something more than just strident political activity.


Ah. I was trying to think of something that had happened 'a generation ago'.

I'mnot disagreeing that with you that Europe shouldn't stand on its past as justification of anything, although to be fair I don't think that Coincidence is doing that at all. His first post carries the implication that America's past was good, and its present is bad (or, at least, worsening), and then he says that he thinks that Europe's present is better (although I imagine that he means that EU, rather than the whole area called 'Europe'). So, anyway, I think that you can certainly argue against his point (as CHiPs Jr has done), but if you point to Europe's past you are addressing an argument that he isn't making or questions that he isn't asking.

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Old Post 04-15-2004 03:37 PM
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Smug Git
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quote:
Originally posted by CHiPsJr
There are worse things in the world than people who live according to rigid ethical standards and treat others as they themselves want to be treated.


Yes, I worked at a catholic school and also at a school with quite a lot of moslems, and the genuinely religious parents from both groups were very nice people, as a rule.

At college, however, I found that the agnostics were generally a lot nicer than the religious types, who were often irritatingly intolerant and snooty, faced as they were with the sight of lots of people enjoying themselves in what (to these religious types, at least) were thoroughly immoral and unGodly ways.

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Old Post 04-15-2004 03:41 PM
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CHiPsJr
Ginger-headed Troll

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Experiences will differ. My own undergrad institution was aggressively secular, a bastion of left-wing dogma in which the prevailing view of Christianity was cartoonish at best. The agnostics were by and large dickheads who were far more wrapped up in their dogma than any religious folk I've encountered, Phelpses not excepted. If there were Christians present, they were in hiding.

As for Caff's point, one can surely draw a distinction between the majority of people who believe in Jesus on the one hand and evangelicals on the other. I have yet to encounter a single person in my entire religious community who has tried to convert me (it may say something about my personality that this particular club doesn't care to have me as a member). I am uncomfortable with being evangelized at, but if I don't run into those people in Kansas I can't imagine where I would.

Last edited by CHiPsJr on 04-15-2004 at 03:54 PM

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Old Post 04-15-2004 03:48 PM
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Trenchant_Troll
ad hominid

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: USA
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quote:
Originally posted by tack
you know what the problem with america is? Jesus. Not enough Jesus.



That is being remedied on a daily basis by an influx of Mexicans having that moniker.







Footnote: You have to give the Mexicans credit. They may be the only folks around with the gonads to name their sons Jesus.

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Old Post 04-15-2004 03:51 PM
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Smug Git
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quote:
Originally posted by Trenchant_Troll
Footnote: You have to give the Mexicans credit. They may be the only folks around with the gonads to name their sons Jesus.


Their European cousins do it too.

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Old Post 04-15-2004 03:52 PM
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CHiPsJr
Ginger-headed Troll

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quote:
Originally posted by Smug Git
Their European cousins do it too.


Ye Gods. Between that and the single-name thing that's increasingly popular in La Liga and elsewhere, we can only be a few scant years away from having a prominent Spanish soccer goalie who insists on being known simply as "Jesus."

We'll see how long it takes for someone to make the obvious joke...

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Old Post 04-15-2004 03:56 PM
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Smug Git
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quote:
Originally posted by CHiPsJr
Experiences will differ. My own undergrad institution was aggressively secular, a bastion of left-wing dogma in which the prevailing view of Christianity was cartoonish at best. The agnostics were by and large dickheads who were far more wrapped up in their dogma than any religious folk I've encountered, Phelpses not excepted. If there were Christians present, they were in hiding.


Young people don't expect to die anytime soon, so are more liable to get religious when they think that it isn't far off. I asked a priest (over a beer) what would happen to the Church when all the old people that I saw in Church died, and he said that the new old people would start turning up.

quote:
As for Caff's point, one can surely draw a distinction between the majority of people who believe in Jesus on the one hand and evangelicals on the other. I have yet to encounter a single person in my entire religious community who has tried to convert me (it may say something about my personality that this particular club doesn't care to have me as a member). I am uncomfortable with being evangelized at, but if I don't run into those people in Kansas I can't imagine where I would.


You can get it here in Harlesden, people standing in the Higshtreet with megaphones talking about it, not to mention Jehova's Witnesses and Mormons doorstepping you. This is a religious area (ie, one with a large immigrant population), though.

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Old Post 04-15-2004 03:59 PM
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Smug Git
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quote:
Originally posted by CHiPsJr
Ye Gods. Between that and the single-name thing that's increasingly popular in La Liga and elsewhere, we can only be a few scant years away from having a prominent Spanish soccer goalie who insists on being known simply as "Jesus."

We'll see how long it takes for someone to make the obvious joke...



The one about only rising three days after the cross?

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Old Post 04-15-2004 04:01 PM
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Trenchant_Troll
ad hominid

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: USA
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quote:
Originally posted by CHiPsJr
Ye Gods. Between that and the single-name thing that's increasingly popular in La Liga and elsewhere, we can only be a few scant years away from having a prominent Spanish soccer goalie who insists on being known simply as "Jesus."

We'll see how long it takes for someone to make the obvious joke...



Then it will be only a matter of time before it is...

The goalie formerly known as Jesus.

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Old Post 04-15-2004 04:05 PM
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CHiPsJr
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quote:
Originally posted by Smug Git
The one about only rising three days after the cross?


I was thinking a bit more obvious, but that one's pretty good.

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Old Post 04-15-2004 04:05 PM
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Smug Git
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All my own work, too.

S.Git
Age 9 3/4

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Old Post 04-15-2004 04:06 PM
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Caffeine
Caffeine

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I eagerly await the day I too can cry out "Jesus saves".

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Old Post 04-15-2004 04:16 PM
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CHiPsJr
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quote:
Originally posted by Caffeine
"Jesus saves".


We have a winner!

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Old Post 04-15-2004 04:21 PM
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Smug Git
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quote:
Originally posted by Caffeine
"Jesus saves".


'...and Kenny Dalgleish scores from the rebound'.

As they say.

Not my own work, it was frequently added to church posters in Liverpool 20 years ago.

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Old Post 04-15-2004 04:22 PM
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Trenchant_Troll
ad hominid

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quote:
Originally posted by Caffeine
I eagerly await the day I too can cry out "Jesus saves".


[P]

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Old Post 04-15-2004 04:29 PM
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Dacarlo
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I think alot of what Coin is saying can be applied to the whole western world. The whole world is fucked up and a major redistribution of quality of life needs to occur. But what can I do? I feel so weak when it comes to this kind of thing and wish I could make a difference.

quote:
...Klu Klux Klan


I'm tempted to ammend that to klueless klux klan instead of Ku klux klan.

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Old Post 04-15-2004 05:02 PM
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Dacarlo
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quote:
Originally posted by Trenchant_Troll
BBC

'nuff said.



Yeah it sucks. Apart from the news site.

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Old Post 04-15-2004 05:14 PM
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