quote:Originally posted by magnolia well, the uk has pretty strict gun laws but the 18 dead in scotland are still dead.
That's was the incident that got handguns banned in the UK. The all owners had to surrender their guns to the local police stations.
quote:The Dunblane school massacre occurred at Dunblane Primary School in the Scottish town of Dunblane on 13 March 1996. The gunman, 43-year-old Thomas Hamilton (b. 10 May 1952), entered the school armed with four handguns, shooting and killing sixteen children and one adult before committing suicide. Along with the 1987 Hungerford massacre and the 2010 Cumbria shootings, it remains one of the worst criminal acts involving firearms in the history of the United Kingdom.
Public debate subsequent to these events centred on gun-control laws, including media-driven public petitions calling for a ban on private ownership of handguns and an official enquiry, the Cullen Report. In response to this debate, the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 and the Firearms (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1997 were enacted, which effectively made private ownership of handguns illegal in the United Kingdom.
quote:Originally posted by Dingle Actually I saw some darkies howling on tv earlier, presumably about their dead kid(s). Although this is massachusettes, so we're probably talking about 19 dead white kids and a token spade.
Connecticut, actually. A state not a lot bigger than the county I grew up in.
i don't think anyone here is saying that you can't accomplish more death and destruction in a short span of time with a gun than a blade. but you also cannot ignore the point that crazy people with determination and a tool - whether it's a blade, a gun, a car, a rock or explosives - will kill others. i don't even own a gun, so it's not like i'd worry about giving one up. however, a blanket ban on firearms won't a) solve the problem or b) realistically happen.
i daresay i'm the only person here whose been on a school campus where there was an intruder at large with a firearm. the only reason i didn't shit myself was that i was brand new to the school and i didn't know "code green" meant a dangerous intruder lockdown. i wasn't injured - no one was - but i spent 3 months in physical therapy this past spring at the hands of two students who weren't even using tools of any kind.
There were lots of guns on-campus when I was in high school. It was a different time. Southside was famous for it; we were one of the first handful of metal-detector-enabled schools in the USA. No "intruders" per se though when I was there (there were, but they weren't there for killin' - rather the opposite); quite right about that. I have been threatened with guns lots of times, but never shot. I've been stabbed a few times. I hear tell it's not quite the same.
quote:Originally posted by Mister Freign it's not too astounding that people would select guns as a dramatic and scary thing to be "against"; it's not hard to understand - but one does wish that both sides of this argument* would pay attention to stats over anecdotes and emotionalisms as a rule, just, like, to be all classy and shit.
* I'm going to have "both of you are wrong again" tattooed on the palm of my right hand
I make no representation as to the accuracy of these stats.
This has been downloaded 41 time(s).
I don't doubt they're more or less accurate numbers - I think they're presented in a vacuum, arranged persuasively. I don't deny the importance of them, nor do I disagree with their tacit sentiment entirely.
delete delete; it's not *super* hard work but it is a little time-consuming to pore over the government stats on gun deaths per setting. When I did it, and re-did it, and checked various other sources* my ideas about guns flipped almost a full 180. I think it would be instructive for anyone who thinks they give a shit to try it: among other thing, that way you can't say I coaxed or massaged anything out of the data, the way the above poster and some 96% of all other such posters do. I can't complain too much because the gun lobby is equally stupid and evil.
*there are law centers which compile different stat-sets than the federales
quote:Originally posted by magnolia i don't think anyone here is saying that you can't accomplish more death and destruction in a short span of time with a gun than a blade. but you also cannot ignore the point that crazy people with determination and a tool - whether it's a blade, a gun, a car, a rock or explosives - will kill others.
Other than stating the obvious, I can't see what point you're trying to make. May as well let everyone have AK-47's because they have steak knives at home anyways? How many casualties would there have been if dude showed up with a set of steak knives instead of guns and body armor? I can't believe how many people have this attitude that, since people will kill people without guns, we may as well make them as efficient at it as possible.
quote:Originally posted by magnolia however, a blanket ban on firearms won't a) solve the problem or b) realistically happen.
Who ever said anything about a blanket ban? How about starting with the ones that are designed for the sole purpose of killing human beings?
i really would love to see how the pro-guns people would react if it was their kids that get lost. cuz they are still mocking with these kind of affairs.
yes if one went mad, may raid holding a knife too, or people really die easily, but come on fucks you know guns are fast killers .. m'ehhh when people don't want to understand they really don't..
it's not due to china has nearly half of the population and 20 lost kids won't have an affect on it's population... people of the world see usa as the boss, or a role model if you like, thus in an attempt to shape, change their ideal world they are more interested in usa and it's policies than of what is going on in china, which has the slightest interest of spreading out it's culture btw..
When everyone in the US has access to food, clothing, shelter, medical care, a decent job, an education, and mental health care, and when having a mental illness engenders less social stigma than gun ownership, then I will happily entertain your "right" to bear arms as a serious enough issue to merit consideration in my moral universe.