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FUCK YOU, YOU FUCKING FUCKFACED FUCKING FUCKER!
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Dingle
Gay for Mugtoe

Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:
Originally posted by Trenchant_Troll
Guns don't kill people, people kill people.


That's deep, did you come up with that yourself?

C'mon TT, I know you can do better than that, especially coming off a 6 month vacation!

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Old Post 12-15-2012 12:52 PM
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Mister Freign
Population Surplus

Registered: Aug 2006
Location: Happytown
Posts: 7860

Basic material reality favors neither side of this nubbin-o'-contention. When it gets too thick we can just say "HEY: abortion abortion abortion" and get this thing back on a recognizable track.

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Old Post 12-15-2012 12:54 PM
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DRZ
SS: GIFs ARE autoplays!

Registered: Jan 2011
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quote:
Originally posted by magnolia
well, the uk has pretty strict gun laws but the 18 dead in scotland are still dead.


That's was the incident that got handguns banned in the UK. The all owners had to surrender their guns to the local police stations.

quote:
The Dunblane school massacre occurred at Dunblane Primary School in the Scottish town of Dunblane on 13 March 1996. The gunman, 43-year-old Thomas Hamilton (b. 10 May 1952), entered the school armed with four handguns, shooting and killing sixteen children and one adult before committing suicide. Along with the 1987 Hungerford massacre and the 2010 Cumbria shootings, it remains one of the worst criminal acts involving firearms in the history of the United Kingdom.

Public debate subsequent to these events centred on gun-control laws, including media-driven public petitions calling for a ban on private ownership of handguns and an official enquiry, the Cullen Report. In response to this debate, the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 and the Firearms (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1997 were enacted, which effectively made private ownership of handguns illegal in the United Kingdom.

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Old Post 12-15-2012 12:55 PM
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SimpleSimon
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quote:
Originally posted by DRZ
Patrick, you're as thick as pig shit sometimes.
Perhaps. Care to refute my statement?

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Old Post 12-15-2012 12:57 PM
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DRZ
SS: GIFs ARE autoplays!

Registered: Jan 2011
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quote:
Originally posted by SimpleSimon
Perhaps. Care to refute my statement?


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Old Post 12-15-2012 12:58 PM
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SimpleSimon
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so, derogatory labeling is your response. Not surprised.

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Old Post 12-15-2012 01:01 PM
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PNG
you'd eat it

Registered: Jul 2005
Location: different
Posts: 8176

Yesterday, a disturbed Chinese man attacked and injured 22 children, but they survived because he stabbed them instead of shooting them.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ticle-1.1220230

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Old Post 12-15-2012 01:07 PM
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DRZ
SS: GIFs ARE autoplays!

Registered: Jan 2011
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quote:
Originally posted by SimpleSimon
so, derogatory labeling is your response. Not surprised.


We've been over this so many times that I know exactly what your opinion is, "a gun is a tool, he could have just as easily used a spoon" etc.

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Old Post 12-15-2012 01:10 PM
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Mister Freign
Population Surplus

Registered: Aug 2006
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"No! Your fallacy is fallacious! Give it to me; now it is my fallacy. I shall make it into the grandest fallacy EVAR and MY fallacy will be truuuuue because of children"

groan

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Old Post 12-15-2012 01:11 PM
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DRZ
SS: GIFs ARE autoplays!

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Old Post 12-15-2012 01:12 PM
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SimpleSimon
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Well, we know they won't be breeding.

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Old Post 12-15-2012 01:14 PM
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Dingle
Gay for Mugtoe

Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:
Originally posted by DRZ

Actually I saw some darkies howling on tv earlier, presumably about their dead kid(s). Although this is massachusettes, so we're probably talking about 19 dead white kids and a token spade.

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Old Post 12-15-2012 01:32 PM
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Brett
Say no to edit rape

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Old Post 12-15-2012 01:47 PM
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SimpleSimon
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quote:
Originally posted by Dingle
Actually I saw some darkies howling on tv earlier, presumably about their dead kid(s). Although this is massachusettes, so we're probably talking about 19 dead white kids and a token spade.
Connecticut, actually. A state not a lot bigger than the county I grew up in.

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Old Post 12-15-2012 01:57 PM
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magnolia
playground monitor

Registered: May 2008
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i don't think anyone here is saying that you can't accomplish more death and destruction in a short span of time with a gun than a blade. but you also cannot ignore the point that crazy people with determination and a tool - whether it's a blade, a gun, a car, a rock or explosives - will kill others. i don't even own a gun, so it's not like i'd worry about giving one up. however, a blanket ban on firearms won't a) solve the problem or b) realistically happen.

i daresay i'm the only person here whose been on a school campus where there was an intruder at large with a firearm. the only reason i didn't shit myself was that i was brand new to the school and i didn't know "code green" meant a dangerous intruder lockdown. i wasn't injured - no one was - but i spent 3 months in physical therapy this past spring at the hands of two students who weren't even using tools of any kind.

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Old Post 12-15-2012 02:40 PM
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Mister Freign
Population Surplus

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Posts: 7860

There were lots of guns on-campus when I was in high school. It was a different time. Southside was famous for it; we were one of the first handful of metal-detector-enabled schools in the USA. No "intruders" per se though when I was there (there were, but they weren't there for killin' - rather the opposite); quite right about that. I have been threatened with guns lots of times, but never shot. I've been stabbed a few times. I hear tell it's not quite the same.

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Old Post 12-15-2012 03:53 PM
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Dacarlo
ex-member

Registered: Oct 2000
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Posts: 15481

quote:
Originally posted by Mister Freign
it's not too astounding that people would select guns as a dramatic and scary thing to be "against"; it's not hard to understand - but one does wish that both sides of this argument* would pay attention to stats over anecdotes and emotionalisms as a rule, just, like, to be all classy and shit.

* I'm going to have "both of you are wrong again" tattooed on the palm of my right hand



I make no representation as to the accuracy of these stats.

Attachment: guns.jpg
This has been downloaded 41 time(s).

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Old Post 12-15-2012 04:19 PM
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Mister Freign
Population Surplus

Registered: Aug 2006
Location: Happytown
Posts: 7860

I don't doubt they're more or less accurate numbers - I think they're presented in a vacuum, arranged persuasively. I don't deny the importance of them, nor do I disagree with their tacit sentiment entirely.

delete delete; it's not *super* hard work but it is a little time-consuming to pore over the government stats on gun deaths per setting. When I did it, and re-did it, and checked various other sources* my ideas about guns flipped almost a full 180. I think it would be instructive for anyone who thinks they give a shit to try it: among other thing, that way you can't say I coaxed or massaged anything out of the data, the way the above poster and some 96% of all other such posters do. I can't complain too much because the gun lobby is equally stupid and evil.

*there are law centers which compile different stat-sets than the federales

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Old Post 12-15-2012 04:40 PM
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Dacarlo
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Registered: Oct 2000
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quote:
Originally posted by Dingle
I can't even believe how many idiots have brought this up today thinking it proves their point. Let's compare headlines:

"Knife-wielding man injures 22 children in China"

"At least 27 killed, including 20 children, in Connecticut school shooting"



When I read it the article said
quote:

Police arrested a 36-year-old man, identified as villager Min Yingjun, Xinhua said. It did not give further details of the extent of the injuries.



In other words the Chinese didn't reaveal whether any of those injuries were fatal, though I'm sure the horror factor for any parents involved was of equal merit.

What's most interesting is the zero, as far as I can see, reporting on this story in UK media (BBC) and its certainly not front page news.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/search/news/?q...0knife%20attack

Its more important to "us' because it was our allies children getting gunned down and not some random brown people in the desert.

What does that say about us as human beings and about the underlying reasons for the American attack?

I'm an idiot who associated this very similar event on Facebook as another example of an horrific event that was largely ignored. Not quite sure why I'm an idiot mind you.

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Old Post 12-15-2012 04:43 PM
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Dingle
Gay for Mugtoe

Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:
Originally posted by magnolia
i don't think anyone here is saying that you can't accomplish more death and destruction in a short span of time with a gun than a blade. but you also cannot ignore the point that crazy people with determination and a tool - whether it's a blade, a gun, a car, a rock or explosives - will kill others.

Other than stating the obvious, I can't see what point you're trying to make. May as well let everyone have AK-47's because they have steak knives at home anyways? How many casualties would there have been if dude showed up with a set of steak knives instead of guns and body armor? I can't believe how many people have this attitude that, since people will kill people without guns, we may as well make them as efficient at it as possible.

quote:
Originally posted by magnolia
however, a blanket ban on firearms won't a) solve the problem or b) realistically happen.

Who ever said anything about a blanket ban? How about starting with the ones that are designed for the sole purpose of killing human beings?

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Old Post 12-15-2012 05:04 PM
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Dacarlo
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Ok I understand your point. I was more concerned with the fact that it happened and no one seemed to give a shit. And less abouth the methodology.

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Old Post 12-15-2012 05:10 PM
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PNG
you'd eat it

Registered: Jul 2005
Location: different
Posts: 8176

i really would love to see how the pro-guns people would react if it was their kids that get lost. cuz they are still mocking with these kind of affairs.
yes if one went mad, may raid holding a knife too, or people really die easily, but come on fucks you know guns are fast killers .. m'ehhh when people don't want to understand they really don't..

it's not due to china has nearly half of the population and 20 lost kids won't have an affect on it's population... people of the world see usa as the boss, or a role model if you like, thus in an attempt to shape, change their ideal world they are more interested in usa and it's policies than of what is going on in china, which has the slightest interest of spreading out it's culture btw..

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Old Post 12-15-2012 05:23 PM
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ignatz mouse
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Registered: Mar 2004
Location: The Wetlands
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When everyone in the US has access to food, clothing, shelter, medical care, a decent job, an education, and mental health care, and when having a mental illness engenders less social stigma than gun ownership, then I will happily entertain your "right" to bear arms as a serious enough issue to merit consideration in my moral universe.

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Old Post 12-15-2012 05:24 PM
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Brett
Say no to edit rape

Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:
Originally posted by PNG
i really would love to see how the pro-guns people would react if it was their kids that get lost.



I'm pretty sure it would be largely the same reaction: more guns would've prevented this.

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Old Post 12-15-2012 05:31 PM
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DRZ
SS: GIFs ARE autoplays!

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I'd love a gun, as long as no-one else is allowed one, but if I'm not allowed one, then I'd prefer it if no-one had one.

You got a rooty tooty point n' shooty stick, Brett?

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Old Post 12-15-2012 05:57 PM
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