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rust
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No, I imagine they would be thinking about why this AR-15 or whatever it was, wasn't locked up in a gunsafe. You know, like a normal person does when they're not being used?

Brett, you are super gay sometimes.

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Old Post 12-15-2012 05:58 PM
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PNG
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it cant be locked in a safe because it is being used by the mad son of the family?

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Old Post 12-15-2012 06:02 PM
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rust
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Even more reason to keep it under lock. Christ, this shit so preventable.

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Old Post 12-15-2012 06:05 PM
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magnolia
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quote:
Originally posted by Dingle
Other than stating the obvious, I can't see what point you're trying to make. May as well let everyone have AK-47's because they have steak knives at home anyways? How many casualties would there have been if dude showed up with a set of steak knives instead of guns and body armor? I can't believe how many people have this attitude that, since people will kill people without guns, we may as well make them as efficient at it as possible.


Who ever said anything about a blanket ban? How about starting with the ones that are designed for the sole purpose of killing human beings?

my point was partially that shit is going to happen, and that to ignore that craziness or mindset of the killers is a crucial part of the equation. it's a point that sometimes seems to get lost in the emotionalism of this kind of debate.

so you would be in favor of what, exactly? banning all handguns? because banning all guns has worked so well in chicago and dc? what would be the penalty for owning a handgun? jail? if jailing people worked, louisiana would be the safest place in america. i'm wondering what you propose exactly, and how do you see enforcing it...

edit to add: we've all heard of the military-industrial complex. take a look at some of the info out there on who's making money running and servicing jails, and using prisoner labor.

Last edited by magnolia on 12-15-2012 at 06:13 PM

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Old Post 12-15-2012 06:06 PM
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magnolia
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quote:
Originally posted by rust
Even more reason to keep it under lock. Christ, this shit so preventable.
i hadn't heard that it wasn't locked up.

i can see a scenario where the former honor student son found where the key was hidden or overpowered his mother to get said key.

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Old Post 12-15-2012 06:10 PM
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rust
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A little preventive measure is all I'm suggesting.

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Old Post 12-15-2012 06:24 PM
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rust
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Lol, key. Anyone else get a chuckle outa that?

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Old Post 12-15-2012 06:31 PM
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ignatz mouse
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quote:
Originally posted by magnolia
...

edit to add: we've all heard of the military-industrial complex. ...



That's why some have taken to calling it the prison-industrial-complex now.

So, yeah, my argument is not pro-gun-control. It's about what is considered a human right and worth fighting for. It's about true civil liberties not being possible without social and economic justice.

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Old Post 12-15-2012 06:38 PM
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magnolia
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key, whether it's a metal one or a key code/combo written down on a slip of paper or memorized by someone. don't be obtuse.

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Old Post 12-15-2012 06:40 PM
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magnolia
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quote:
Originally posted by ignatz mouse
That's why some have taken to calling it the prison-industrial-complex now.

So, yeah, my argument is not pro-gun-control. It's about what is considered a human right and worth fighting for. It's about true civil liberties not being possible without social and economic justice.

there's more than one way to approach a problem. i think part of the problem is how and when do we allow people to fail at something, even if it's something important.

a small example is education. i won't even pretend that every kid has access to the same quality of school. i'd be lying. but every kid has access to some kind of school, and i see a lot every day who are choosing not to learn. it's made me somewhat cynical in some respects, when i see how they choose to behave, and then i'm handed a package of paperwork to fill out so they can get a "crazy check".

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Old Post 12-15-2012 06:49 PM
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rust
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quote:
Originally posted by magnolia
key, whether it's a metal one or a key code/combo written down on a slip of paper or memorized by someone. don't be obtuse.


I was being acute, actually.

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Old Post 12-15-2012 06:55 PM
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ignatz mouse
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Let's keep this debate in the realm of the possible, shall we?

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Old Post 12-15-2012 06:57 PM
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Large Filipino
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quote:
Originally posted by PNG
i really would love to see how the pro-guns people would react if it was their kids that get lost.


I would wish that teachers were packing. Maybe if the principal was packing she would have eliminated the threat and possibly saved her own life. Yes there are variables but run and hide should not be the only defense.
At the very least I would like to think the outcome would be less lives lost because if the principal would have at least slowed down the shooter any more than she did maybe by then all the kids would have been locked up.

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Old Post 12-15-2012 08:21 PM
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karen
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Old Post 12-15-2012 09:40 PM
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Brett
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quote:
Originally posted by DRZ

You got a rooty tooty point n' shooty stick, Brett?



no.

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Old Post 12-15-2012 09:43 PM
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creepy uncle
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quote:
Originally posted by Dingle
Who ever said anything about a blanket ban? How about starting with the ones that are designed for the sole purpose of killing human beings?


That's an interesting point of view you're peddling there.
I'd say while some guns are originally designed for targets or animals, just about all of them can be adapted to the sole purpose of thinning the gene pool in the wrong hands.
A locked room full of children and a .22 rifle can potentially yield the same results as an assault rifle.
Neither a blanket ban nor a targeted removal of a particular type of gun will cure a sick society of these crimes.

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Old Post 12-15-2012 09:52 PM
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DRZ
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Old Post 12-15-2012 09:55 PM
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PNG
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quote:
Originally posted by Large Filipino
I would wish that teachers were packing. Maybe if the principal was packing she would have eliminated the threat and possibly saved her own life. Yes there are variables but run and hide should not be the only defense.
At the very least I would like to think the outcome would be less lives lost because if the principal would have at least slowed down the shooter any more than she did maybe by then all the kids would have been locked up.



"i would give a gun to teacher as well" is your solution, true, change the lyrics, "old mc. donald had a gun.. with a bang bang...", "mary had a little calibre" "she'll be pouring bullets when she comes" makes sense..go for it..

even monkeys would laugh at this logic with their arses but gun making factories.

sorry but it is you that wants everyone to have a killing machine easily and then it is again you get fear and own a gun yourself. cuz you know bullets do kill. still the same old dilemma, im asking you "why not stop circulating the guns in the first place and don't let anybody killed this easily"?

really i am trying to understand, is it something to do with liberties, or bound with religioun (going back deeper relations with israel (who is the 2nd. gun maker in the world)), or something to do with making gun collection? why does a rational person will let anyone kill and get him/herself killed?

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Last edited by PNG on 12-15-2012 at 10:07 PM

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Old Post 12-15-2012 10:00 PM
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Brett
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edit: though i should add that the "arm the teachers!" comments are just as annoying as the gun control ones.

Last edited by Brett on 12-15-2012 at 10:55 PM

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Old Post 12-15-2012 10:03 PM
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Large Filipino
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quote:
Originally posted by PNG
"i would give a gun to teacher as well" is your solution, true, change the lyrics, "old mc. donald had a gun.. with a bang bang...", "mary had a little calibre" "she'll be pouring bullets when she comes" makes sense..go for it..

even monkeys would laugh at this logic with their arses but gun making factories.

sorry but it is you that wants everyone to have a killing machine easily and then it is again you get fear and own a gun yourself. cuz you know bullets do kill. still the same old dilemma, im asking you "why not stop circulating the guns in the first place and don't let anybody killed this easily"?

really i am trying to understand, is it something to do with liberties, or bound with religioun (going back deeper relations with israel (who is the 2nd. gun maker in the world)), or something to do with making gun collection? why does a rational person will let anyone kill and get him/herself killed?



It's because back in High school (class of 1984) our principle used to compare his rifles with students rifles in the school parking lot hanging on their gun racks in their pickup trucks.
And we didn't have too many school shootings.
It's because today we cross the street not really worrying that the car approaching you will not stop to his stop light and decide instead to mow you over.
When a teacher or principal is open carrying a 9mm it's just a fucking gun. We shouldn't be in a great panic because teacher has a gun. We should be doing the opposite knowing that teacher hopefully knows how to use this gun in case some asshole decides his life is no longer worth it so it's not worth it for you too. We should feel safe that if this happens in your classroom your teacher will do his best to protect you and has a good chance himself that he will not be killed doing so. That this teacher can say "The kids are in the gym" then blow off a round to his fucking head or have a stand down where the killer may decide to just not shoot and move on.
All these scenarios in my head and I see a real choice in keeping kid killers at bay if and when we can fight back.

You know we can just as easily say "Let's do like Japan and ban all weapons! It worked for them!"
But they would be wrong in assuming this.
Because if we banned all guns in the USA the result would not be like Japan or Europe at all.
The result would be much closer to Mexico.
And what blows my mind is that most people know this.

And this infatuation Americans have with guns goes way back in our history. Everyone carried back in the wild wild west. People collect guns because of its history. Someone may be holding a civil war rifle that belonged to his ancestor.
Then we also hunt a lot of game here as well. It's a sport.
You can't just ban guns here. It's why even Republicans and Democrats alike is on the fence with this.

You know what I think should happen? We should step up responsibility in gun ownership just like we regulate car ownership. You can own a car but you can't drive it unless you have a driver's license. Your car gets stolen you report it. Strict laws for possession of the gun not registered or the serial number is sawed off. And the option of having your gun license taken away if you used your gun illegally or if you don't report a missing gun. I'll even go as far as saying you get some kind of reward for reporting someone that is carrying an unregistered gun. And laws surrounding private gun sales just like transferring a car title. Each firearm must carry a title.
That's really about the extent we should be doing. Banning assault weapons makes no sense. The shooter left his in his car. Why people are crying about it makes me think.

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I would throw it in a Orangutan enclosure
And watch the orgy.

Last edited by Large Filipino on 12-15-2012 at 11:08 PM

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Old Post 12-15-2012 10:49 PM
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Large Filipino
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quote:
Originally posted by Brett



edit: though i should add that the "arm the teachers!" comments are just as annoying as the gun control ones.



You didn't see what I saw in High school. That's why I simply don't see why all the hoopla when they see someone not a cop carrying a gun. Because once upon a time it was no big deal at all.

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Old Post 12-15-2012 11:14 PM
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Brett
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it still promotes a "...as long as I can shoot them first" mentality that I find abhorrent. "more guns!" being the solution to gun violence is absurd.


but I'm not posting any more on the subject as this exact same debate happens every. single. time. to a T; so I will leave it at that.

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Old Post 12-15-2012 11:19 PM
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PNG
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its a cultural thing, and you guys discussing this like the moral of bull fights are being discussed in spain i see... allright i made my stance about this, respect, yet this is the only reason i'm glad i don't live in usa..

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Old Post 12-15-2012 11:49 PM
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Pinecrika
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quote:
Originally posted by PNG
i really would love to see how the pro-guns people would react if it was their kids that get lost.


I've been putting a lot of thought into that before I answered the question.... And I'd have to honestly say my views wouldn't be changed. I grew up in a gun culture, had an armory and shooting range at my local high school, part of a platoon of propaganda fed mini-marines, hunter, and there was a dog and two guns in the back of every pick-up. The only real gun violence experienced was hunting season when out of towners came to the woods or locals were settling scores (hunting season is good for that) My view remains the same... If we teach the constitution and government in schools, we should teach gun safety and training at school as well, starting at a young age. Learn RESPECT for the gun and what it can do. Take the mystery out of firearms and hammer in the responsibility of ownership. If a better health care system was in place we might be able to weed out some of these mental cases and get them help at a younger age, but that's another can of worms.

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Old Post 12-16-2012 12:01 AM
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karen
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I don't know if you guys saw the recent reports, where they talked with a friend of the mother. She was hugely pro-gun, and had an extensive collection. She taught her kids how to shoot, and took them to shoot often. She was extremely proud of her collection, and more than a little obsessed with them.
The gun he used was hers, of course. If they weren't in the house, he likely wouldn't have had one at all. Just sayin'.

To be honest, I don't have a passionate stance on this issue... I just know I don't like to be around guns, and wouldn't want my kids in a house with them.
I was taught how to shoot when I was younger, though. I can use a gun pretty well, but I don't see the sport in it, beyond a little fun shooting holes in soda cans.
I don't think average citizens should have access to assault rifles. Handguns for protection.. I don't know. Like I said, no passionate response there. I just wouldn't want my kids around it.
My mom sleeps with a gun under her husband's pillow whenever he leaves for trips. it creeps me the fuck out.

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Old Post 12-16-2012 12:08 AM
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