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memdink
spasm of violence

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: ral3igh
Posts: 5307

quote:
Originally posted by J E B Stuart
Hey, memdink. Did you post that because you think it is racist, or think it isn’t?

Amen.



Hey Jebery,

I'm partial to ambiguity in this case. I posted both for posterity and to generate some unique thoughts. The atmosphere around Trump is so extreme and the partisans so loud that it's hard to think straight in the clattering echo chamber. I prefer to work directly from the source.

I suppose that I do believe the sentiment is *ist of some kind. If not racist, it's nativist and chauvinist. The whole statement summarizes as "go back to your own country." In my opinion it belongs in the same category as eugenics, phrenology, melting pot theory, and forced assimilation. Whether or not these people were born in the U.S. is irrelevant. Trump demonizes and dehumanizes his opponents with ad hominem attacks, normalizing a pretty abnormal and irrational approach to leadership.

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Old Post 07-18-2019 05:51 PM
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fubar
mud falcon

Registered: Apr 2005
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Jeb, how do you feel about this?

What assumptions about the people at this rally are you comfortable making?

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Old Post 07-18-2019 09:49 PM
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Oracular_Jinx
Old hag

Registered: Oct 2001
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Most of us are not native north Americans... I bet some of them would like us to "go home" - I hate that statement. It is a stupid thing to say no matter who you are.

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Old Post 07-20-2019 01:47 AM
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Oracular_Jinx
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I also think silence and ignoring it is just as bad.

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Old Post 07-20-2019 01:47 AM
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Muffy
Crika bait

Registered: Oct 2007
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Native Americans probably want you all to fuck off and go home.

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Old Post 07-20-2019 02:00 AM
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fubar
mud falcon

Registered: Apr 2005
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I think Trump needs 5 grams of shrooms and some sweet, low bass.

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Old Post 07-20-2019 06:27 AM
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rust
Headbugs 40

Registered: Feb 2010
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Sure Indians want their conquerors to give back the spoils of war. As do all the vanquished. Not going to happen, especially on Trump's watch; peace be upon him. A man like Trump doesn't need the fungus to give him guidance, his gut flora isn't even of our planet. Everything is in its right place. Trust the gaan.

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Old Post 07-20-2019 06:47 AM
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plum
Last Man

Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:
Originally posted by Muffy
Native Americans probably want you all to fuck off and go home.


When the Native American Aboriginal First Nations Indigenous niggers arrived over from ASIA, they were so pure true authentic and innocent that they floated instead of walked, so as not to disturb the indigenous flora and fauna.

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Old Post 07-20-2019 08:15 AM
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fubar
mud falcon

Registered: Apr 2005
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You're funnier when I'm on shrooms.

*edit: Damn. No points to give. Have some energy and stomach cramps.

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Old Post 07-20-2019 08:27 AM
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Muffy
Crika bait

Registered: Oct 2007
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Stop channelling Coincidence. It's disturbing.

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Old Post 07-20-2019 11:52 AM
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J E B Stuart
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Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:
Originally posted by Muffy
Native Americans probably want you all to fuck off and go home.

Broad generalizations in the name of native Americans is a common mistake, Muffy. By contrast, are the Maori the only indigenous people of New Zealand? I read somewhere that they are, but I’m certainly not well-informed on Kiwi history.

Amen.

__________________
" Future years will never know the seething hell and the black infernal background of countless minor scenes and interiors, (not the official surface courteousness of the Generals, not the few great battles) of the Secession war; and it is best they should not�the real war will never get in the books." ~ Walt Whitman

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Old Post 07-23-2019 03:07 AM
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J E B Stuart
Administrator

Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:
Originally posted by fubar
Jeb, how do you feel about this?

What assumptions about the people at this rally are you comfortable making?


Fair questions, fubar. My short answer for the first one is that the crowd chant was smack talking. Hell, we used to do it all the time. Right here. Some couldn’t handle it. Those with even half a brain, though, knew it what it was and have gone on to lead happy and productive lives.

As for most of the people at the rally, it was obvious they were having a super time enjoying the infectious enthusiasm and presence of their Commander in Chief. It’s damned hard, if not impossible, to get so many people to fake that.

My sense of it is that the efforts to tag the chant as racist were inevitable, predictable and, most of all, supremely silly. Sorta like me trying to convince phorbenia that my crank makes John Holmes’ unit look like a Vienna sausage.

Amen.

__________________
" Future years will never know the seething hell and the black infernal background of countless minor scenes and interiors, (not the official surface courteousness of the Generals, not the few great battles) of the Secession war; and it is best they should not�the real war will never get in the books." ~ Walt Whitman

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Old Post 07-23-2019 03:35 AM
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Muffy
Crika bait

Registered: Oct 2007
Location:
Posts: 5968

quote:
Originally posted by J E B Stuart
Broad generalizations in the name of native Americans is a common mistake, Muffy.
Yes, but it's a handy generalization when you know people know what you mean and you can't be bothered being entirely PC.

quote:
Originally posted by J E B Stuart
By contrast, are the Maori the only indigenous people of New Zealand? I read somewhere that they are, but I’m certainly not well-informed on Kiwi history.


I was always taught that the Moriori were here first. We ate them in to extinction. However, it's contentious among historians.
Strictly speaking, not all Maori are the same. Much like native Americans. E.g. I'm Ngapuhi. Some consider Morirori to be another type of Maori as there is no evidence of any people in NZ pre 1300 or so, then a bunch of polynesians showed up, including the Moriori. Others think the Moriori got here first and that there are enough genetic differences for them to be considered a different type of people. Neither the Moriori nor the Maori had a tradition of writing though, so the arguments are mostly around what to make of the genetic differences and stuff the archeologists dig up.
Personally, I don't care. I'm not going to dwell on my Maori ancestors eating the Moriori any more than I dwell on my English ancestors for brutalizing my Irish ancestors. Far too much internal confict for my liking.

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Old Post 07-23-2019 09:45 AM
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J E B Stuart
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quote:
Originally posted by memdink
Hey Jebery,

I'm partial to ambiguity in this case. I posted both for posterity and to generate some unique thoughts. ...I suppose that I do believe the sentiment is *ist of some kind. If not racist, it's nativist and chauvinist. The whole statement summarizes as "go back to your own country." In my opinion it belongs in the same category as eugenics, phrenology, melting pot theory, and forced assimilation. ...


Heh, and to think that all this time I thought we posted for posteriority. 🤓

Memdinkums, your *ist comment suggests to me that the racist label isn’t a product of res ipsa loquitur. If it was, there’d be no need to garnish it with “eugenics, phrenology, melting pot theory, and forced assimilation”.

My unscientific lay observations over these past few years have given me this sense of it ~ The likelihood a person will view the chant and tweet as racist is directly proportional to the degree of loathing that person harbors for our President.

Amen.

__________________
" Future years will never know the seething hell and the black infernal background of countless minor scenes and interiors, (not the official surface courteousness of the Generals, not the few great battles) of the Secession war; and it is best they should not�the real war will never get in the books." ~ Walt Whitman

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Old Post 07-23-2019 04:34 PM
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Muffy
Crika bait

Registered: Oct 2007
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I got the feeling it was supposed to be more ejusdem generis than res ipsa loquitur, but the phrenology threw me as it stood out like a lump on the head.

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Old Post 07-23-2019 09:42 PM
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Muffy
Crika bait

Registered: Oct 2007
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Also, I don't really understand how you can still defend Trump's character. Is it just you trying to be fair in the face of all the haters who go a bit too far, or do you genuinely think he's a decent person? How would you feel if he was going on a date with a close female relative? I get why some of his freaky base loves him, as he validates their own douchery, but you seem like a decent and well-educated person, so I find it fascinating that someone of Trump's calibre doesn't make your skin crawl.

Speaking of...who is looking forward to tomorrow? I may have to make snacks. Mueller has had plenty of time to predict and plan, and I imagine he'll choose his words carefully. However, I get the feeling he doesn't want anyone walking away thinking his words were supposed to be exonerating.

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Old Post 07-23-2019 10:00 PM
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rust
Headbugs 40

Registered: Feb 2010
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Henry Ford, Walt Disney and Gandhi were all great men with serious character flaws. They achieved more than the most righteous among us. Decency is an illusion much like morality, as in it doesn't exist. That suggests a universal code of conduct. Moral code is the only metric by which we should judge one another, so if you're asking someone how they feel about Trump's hypothetical kissing cousins dilemma, then I'd ask how you feel about Gandhi still being so revered, considering he literally slept with children in his bed to discourage a base instinct pushing him towards fucking kids.

To answer your question, I wouldn't feel anything if he were to fuck a relative, given that relative is of age. What a man does in his private life is none of my business, and if that same man is the leader of a nation, then the only thing that matters is what policy he's pushing. With Trump, it's all good, other than immigration.

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Old Post 07-24-2019 04:48 AM
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Muffy
Crika bait

Registered: Oct 2007
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How do I put this tactfully... err, I can't, fuck it. I am not surprised that you like Trump, Rust. JEB is a different kettle of fish. However, you do make an interesting point that great men can have serious character flaws. I suppose you have to balance the greatness of the man against the seriousness of the character flaws and in Trump's case he strikes me more as a policy pushing puppet with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. A well trained monkey could stand up and push republican policy while flinging about his own poo and probably be slightly less repulsive.
My query wasn't so much about him fucking a relative as it was trusting him to behave like a gentleman while on a date. If it did culminate in fucking, my first question would be whether that was consensual.
Pernt for not liking his immigration policy, though

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Old Post 07-24-2019 07:54 AM
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memdink
spasm of violence

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: ral3igh
Posts: 5307

quote:
Originally posted by J E B Stuart
Heh, and to think that all this time I thought we posted for posteriority. 🤓

I'm too serious these days. Serious business.

quote:
Memdinkums, your *ist comment suggests to me that the racist label isn’t a product of res ipsa loquitur. If it was, there’d be no need to garnish it with “eugenics, phrenology, melting pot theory, and forced assimilation”.

Fair enough. I just feel like the same kind of mindset that drives those things also drives "go back home" and "jews will not replace us" chants. It's a particular type.


quote:
My unscientific lay observations over these past few years have given me this sense of it ~ The likelihood a person will view the chant and tweet as racist is directly proportional to the degree of loathing that person harbors for our President.


It's expedient.

Hallowed by thy name.

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Old Post 07-24-2019 04:19 PM
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fubar
mud falcon

Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:
Originally posted by J E B Stuart


My sense of it is that the efforts to tag the chant as racist were inevitable, predictable and, most of all, supremely silly.



I get inevitable and predictable. I don't understand why it's silly. Care to explain?

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Old Post 07-25-2019 01:50 AM
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J E B Stuart
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quote:
Originally posted by fubar
... I don't understand why it's silly. Care to explain?

Because tagging it as a patently racist comment is, IMHO, absurd. It’s as absurd as two of the squid squad referring to themselves as people “of color”. As absurd as Pocahontas Liz claiming she is Native American. As absurd as Wild Billy, r.i.p., voting Republican. As absurd as that jackass wonderaz borrowing fi dolla from you and expecting he’ll ever pay you back. As absurd ... 🤪

Amen.

__________________
" Future years will never know the seething hell and the black infernal background of countless minor scenes and interiors, (not the official surface courteousness of the Generals, not the few great battles) of the Secession war; and it is best they should not�the real war will never get in the books." ~ Walt Whitman

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Old Post 07-25-2019 04:52 PM
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Muffy
Crika bait

Registered: Oct 2007
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But is it? His comments might not meet the dictionary definitions we try to put on racism, but not all racists are stupid enough to run around in pointy white hats screaming to lynch the niggers these days. I think most people can smell racism though, and Trump is definitely a bit whiffy. He has a pattern of saying and doing things that could be broadly classed as "racist", some good examples here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racia...of_Donald_Trump

At the end of the day, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a really stupid racist duck, chances are, it's a duck.

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Old Post 07-25-2019 06:17 PM
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fubar
mud falcon

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Agreed, muffy. Not recognizing the implications of trump's words, their motivation, and their reaction with southern racists is unsettling, especially from intelligent individuals. It seems that more and more people are willing to do whatever mental gymnastics are required to justify this president's rhetoric.

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Old Post 07-25-2019 07:21 PM
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J E B Stuart
Administrator

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quote:
Originally posted by fubar
...Not recognizing the implications of trump's words, their motivation, and their reaction with southern racists is unsettling, especially from intelligent individuals. ...

Southern racists? Are you trying to be ornery, fubar?

Amen.

__________________
" Future years will never know the seething hell and the black infernal background of countless minor scenes and interiors, (not the official surface courteousness of the Generals, not the few great battles) of the Secession war; and it is best they should not�the real war will never get in the books." ~ Walt Whitman

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Old Post 07-25-2019 07:26 PM
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Muffy
Crika bait

Registered: Oct 2007
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Oh look, another duck. Not to imply you are racist dear Jeb, but Southerners do kind of have a history and a present of acting more racist than your average mallard.

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Old Post 07-25-2019 07:56 PM
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