quote:Originally posted by Muffy Frankly, I'd be a little concerned about the IQ of someone who hadn't concluded Trump is a liar by now. I suppose the real question is how much people think that matters? There seems to have been a general decline in expecting traditional values and virtues to be desirable and necessary qualities in the USAs elected officials.
Yes, this is my main concern. I think you can draw a straight line between the quality of officials elected and the expectations of the electorate.
A common defense of Trump's pernicious and omnipresent lying I have heard is, "Well, all politicians lie," as though there isn't some difference in degree or intent. I think this is a result of means-justifying-ends thinking which is encouraged by party tribalism and supported by our very fucked up media landscape.
I don't think the USA is alone in this. I see symptoms in European democracies as well.
Anyhow the simple but not very revealing answer to your question is that Democrats think his lying matters, Republicans -- with few exceptions -- do not, and independents are somewhere in the middle.
Obama lied like a rug, as did Bill Clinton, as did every POTUS in my lifetime. By all measures Obama was a terrible POTUS, but he was black so he got a pass. Can anyone here point to a pernicious lie that Trump has told? I must have missed it. Or perhaps Maddow forgot to mention that part?
Clinton got strung up for lying about a blowjob. Trump has lied about his involvement with foreign threats. One might argue that in this context the lies are inherently pernicious due to the damage they're doing to America's credibility and the country in general. Also, the whole "but they're not bad lies" is questionable. How big does it have to be to be a bad lie? How dishonest does someone in public office have to be to still be considered fit for the job? Sure, hold Obama like presidents to the same standard, just have some fucking standards first.
Mueller showed that the Russians tried to influence our election and messed with our election process and Trump tried to obstruct the release of this information. Imagine a president of the United States trying to prevent the American people from knowing that Russians were involved in trying to get somebody elected! Trump is pernicious to his core. He's a liar, low-life and total con man and people need to wake up.
The question for me is this: When did Trump ever tell the truth? Remember all the lies that Trump and Don Jr told about that meeting in Trump Tower with the Russians and the help they were trying to get from the Russians?
I could go on and on for a long time. Our president is a real sicko and only bad things can come from this.
I'm at a loss at how intelligent people can't see through him, so I only pray every day that he drops dead so that we can get some decency and civility back in the White House. This President of ours who's not a fan of soldiers who get captured and who carries grudges and slights further than any normal decent person should.
That video shows what a lying, sick, fuck this man is. He's an ignoramus who considers himself an expert on everything. It's very frightening to have such a man as president. It would be funny if it weren't so disgusting. He had so many failed businesses that American banks would have nothing to do with him. His only expertise is lying to people and conning them and he's really good at that. He's taking our economy down now, this great expert of ours.
My biggest concern, which I've expressed to Piney a number of times, is what does the fact he was elected say about American people? It's not like he became an ass after he was elected, he's still the same rotten buffoon he has always been. I get the whole "we want change... we're sick of politicians" thing, but geeze.... aim a little higher. It's like replacing a shitty CEO with a sack full of pig assholes and expecting a good outcome.
quote:Originally posted by Muffy My biggest concern, which I've expressed to Piney a number of times, is what does the fact he was elected say about American people? It's not like he became an ass after he was elected, he's still the same rotten buffoon he has always been. I get the whole "we want change... we're sick of politicians" thing, but geeze.... aim a little higher. It's like replacing a shitty CEO with a sack full of pig assholes and expecting a good outcome.
What you fail to recognize, I think, is who the alternative to Trump was. Hillary Clinton is the reason Trump is POTUS and the Liberal wacko the Dems put up in 2020 is the reason Trump will be reelected. The fact is, most Americans don't vote FOR anyone anymore, but rather against the person they least want to see elected.
If you think Trump is bad news, especially compared to past presidents, A) You aren't paying attention, and B) You must love you some HRC. Last I knew, Trump hasn't sold assault rifles to drug cartels or sold 20% of US uranium to Russia (talk about colluding with the Russians) the way your beloved Obama did.
Frankly, I doubt your average Trump hater even knows specifically why they dislike the job he is doing. I have been asking Liberals for months to point to a specific instance of Trump being racist and I've yet to get an answer. Maybe one of you erudite Lefties would care to take up the challenge?
In my opinion, this is all little more than a case of sore losers crying into their coffee while wetting their panties.
Quit lumping me in with every Democrat you've ever argued with. I'm not a Democrat. I'm not even American, so stating "my beloved Obama" really misses the mark. You obviously also missed where I referred to HRC as a cunt. I 100% agree the Dems ran the wrong candidate. Now, just imagine for a minute that I can hold those views and still think Trump is a cockwomble. Ironically, I've yet to meet a Trump supporter that can tell me what makes him a decent human being without referring to sins of other Presidents, like Trump's not a cockwomble because these others were also cockwombles? Congratulations for not bringing up Benghazi, otherwise your argument would encompass what every boring Trump supporter has said, ever.
Now, let's just assume that I hate all politicians (which isn't too far from the truth) and hate Trump just a little more (pick a reason, any reason, he's a lying, pussy grabbing, arrogant blowhard - finding reasons to dislike him is NOT the issue). He's the king of the cockwombles, one might say. Why is that a bad thing given, as you note, America has had shitty Presidents for years? Because it shows you've all lost control and are now tolerant of having pond scum represent your views. You're all fucked. Now figure out why and fix it so I can move over there and eat my toaster strudle in peace.
quote:Originally posted by Trenchant_Troll Obama lied like a rug, as did Bill Clinton, as did every POTUS in my lifetime. By all measures Obama was a terrible POTUS, but he was black so he got a pass. Can anyone here point to a pernicious lie that Trump has told? I must have missed it. Or perhaps Maddow forgot to mention that part?
If Trump's name were replaced by HRC in the Mueller report, would you not be clamoring for her impeachment?
quote:Originally posted by GoFuckYourselves! ...I could go on and on for a long time. ...
By all means, please do so, Herk.
As for me, I voted for Trump in 2016 and I’ll be voting Trump in 2020, provided the Good Lord’s a-willin’ and the crik don’t rise. Does this mean I’ll be persona non grata at our annual family Thanksgiving dinner at Golden Corral?
" Future years will never know the seething hell and the black infernal background of countless minor scenes and interiors, (not the official surface courteousness of the Generals, not the few great battles) of the Secession war; and it is best they should notï¿½the real war will never get in the books." ~ Walt Whitman
That's so fascinating. Every time I hear someone I don't think is a complete tool is voting for Trump, it's like they've just told me they're a Pastafarian who worships at the church of the flying spaghetti monster. I just don't get it.