We're losing it. Actually I think we have already lost it, they are just dropping the charade.
I'm not being hyperbolic when I say we are becoming an authoritarian dictatorship before our very eyes. We are mid-transition, and the people are cheering it on. I'm not talking over the course of decades or even years, this is happening rapidly. Cards are being played daily, this is happening right now.
We are headed over a cliff, and there is no ladder back up. This isn't just some bad policy that can be undone, this is a coordinated and concerted effort to transition into a global authoritarian society. I wish this were only some unhinged conspiracy theory.
This is far from an American problem, the entire west will fall in line, they already are. The rest of the world will follow, by force if necessary.
The population at large is either on board with this, or completely oblivious. Our media is completely state controlled, virtually every narrative in the public mind is a crafted manipulation, and any alternative viewpoints are being stamped out as 'fake news' and 'hate speech'. Alex Jones was a shot across the bow, independent media are going to start falling like cards, they already are.
I don't see a solution, there are no brakes. I wish I could believe the Republicans weren't on board, because maybe they could stop it, but we know they all serve the same masters.
I really believe that this is the beginning of the end of society as we know it.
I have a lot more to say on this later, but in the meantime I wish anybody who reads this would watch this video by Tim Pool. In it, he succinctly explains how the "first amendment doesn't apply to private corporations" deflection is utter bullshit.
One last thought, freedom of speech is not only the most important issue right now, it is the only issue. Without it we cannot defend any of our rights.
Taking control of the public narrative is mass mind control, that is just what it is. This is already happening, people are no longer in control of their own minds. They are actually standing up and demanding the purge be ramped up. This can't be undone, they will always be able to manufacturer consent for anything.
Please correct me if I'm wrong. Anyone can go to infowars.com and listen to Jones. And if I create a site called Facebook, I can choose who I want to carry on my site. I don't see any government censorship here.
quote:Originally posted by GoFuckYourselves! Please correct me if I'm wrong. Anyone can go to infowars.com and listen to Jones. And if I create a site called Facebook, I can choose who I want to carry on my site. I don't see any government censorship here.
You are exactly the person who needs to watch that video. I am willing to discuss that comment with you, but not until after you watch the video. He will show you how you are thinking the wrong way about this much more gracefully than I could (and it's only 12 mins, and it may change your life).
Also, if you do watch the video, notice that he also discusses a story about a sitting Senator who has publicly demanded that tech companies ramp up the censorship campaign because "the survival of our democracy depends on it". Even given your (what I believe to be) misinterpretation of the Bill of Rights, I wonder if you believe this meets your standard of a 1st amendment violation?
And note, I am not and never have been an Alex Jones fan. But once you start to understand how artificial this whole censorship movement is, how it was planned and coordinated and significant effort was put into building up an Alex Jones strawman just so it could be publicly destroyed, I guarantee it will shock you.
Maybe I'll elaborate later, but some food for thought: did you know that Alex Jones had released several extensive clarifications, denouncements, and apologies long before any Sandy Hook victims were convinced to sue him (yes, there was a long coordinated campaign to pressure the victims to sue)? What, Megyn Kelly and Stephen Colbert didn't tell you any of that, much less actually air any defense or rebuttal from him (or even acknowledge that they exist so other people could seek them out on their own)? Why are no media outlets even allowing him the opportunity to comment, much less rebut their smears? What else are they, and the rest of the media, leaving out, or outright lying about?
I would ask you to notice how there is longer two sides to every story, there is only an official story. If you pay attention with that in mind, you will notice it everywhere.
Another crumb to chew on, H3H3, an extremely popular and non-political podcast, was taken offline by YouTube mid-stream yesterday for even daring to talk about Alex Jones. The Proud Boys were disappeared off twitter yesterday, I'm guessing you have bought the racist, alt-right narrative being perpetuated about them, but you may be very surprised at what you find if you fact checked that yourself. Dissenting voices are and will continue to be silenced. They are testing the waters with the alleged extremists, but the ultimate target is all dissenting opinion.
Not trying to pick on you GFY, but the truth is actually out there. You don't have to trust the government media monopoly, and it doesn't take a ton of effort to realize that you shouldn't. Just fact check and think critically about a few of the more pervasive narratives, and it will open the floodgates for you and the whole house of cards will fall. Nothing, and that is a literal nothing, the media is telling you is a factual and honest representation of reality. It is purely propaganda, 100%, and it's not very hard to see it if you look.
I could help point you in the right direction, but it would also be better if you are convinced by yourself. You just have to try to make an effort, you'll realize that everything that I am saying here now can be verified, while everything the media are saying cannot. Not just in this case, not just regarding Alex Jones, but everything. Wars, climate, environment, social justice, foreign policy, election integrity, etc, every narrative is spinning like a top. It is really that simple. In fact, one obvious giveaway is that they often intentionally exclude any verifiable information at all. They regularly report stories where the entirety of the evidence presented is unverifiable quotations, usually from 'sources' or 'anonymous insiders'. These are opinion pieces being presented as hard news. Look for them. See if you can find any actual evidence of Russiagate, for example. See if you can find one single 'fact' that supports the mainstream narrative that you are actually able to verify on your own.
This knowledge is in many ways a burden, but we should know what is coming. We should all be panicking, the scariest thing is that we are not. I don't want to shame or belittle you at all, GFY, that's not my intent. I'm just trying to turn on some light bulbs.
I just want to post a quick followup because I admit that I am coming across a lot like Alex Jones. You can only take my word that I am not an unhinged conspiracy theorist.
I understand how this looks to someone who is inside the bubble, this is all overwhelming, and that is why people would just rather not even entertain it. But that is also exactly how they are getting away with it, the conspiracy is so grand that it sounds like a dystopian fiction novel.
All the red flags are there, and they are huge, flashing, red flags.
Forget Alex Jones for a minute, the climate is long past the crisis point, even if everything I was am saying were delusional rantings, the climate is going to destroy civilization as we know it, globally, and much more quickly than anybody anticipated. Can you recall the last time you heard anything about the climate on mainstream media?
How about Yemen? Did you know that the US government has teamed up with the Saudis to commit war crimes in Yemen, arguably genocide? This is happening now, today. Another thing that is happening today, the US is preparing to invade Iran. How many countries are we currently bombing? I don't even know, I hear 8, but has the media told you about even one?!
What they don't tell you is just as telling as what they do.
I'm telling you GFY, begging you, open your mind to the possibility that I am correct. Please try to debunk what I am saying, because if this is really happening, don't you want to know?
Dildo_Hitler (great name, Social Parasite?), what real life harm? If you're talking about Sandy Hook, I'm sorry but you're just wrong. Not that he never talked about a conspiracy regarding Sandy Hook, but that is the kernel of truth that convinces so many people to accept the whole twisted narrative without any critical thought.
We also have laws that protect people from real life harm. When was his trial, again?
I guess it probably isn't even important that anybody believe this. I can scream from the rooftops all day, but people don't have to listen, and at the end of the day, I don't think there are any brakes anyways. I think we're past the point of no return.
Last point for now, this isn't my own personal pet conspiracy theory, there are a lot of people trying to sound alarms, including many smart and reputable people. If you're only getting your information from one source (and the establishment media as a whole is one source), you would never know that.
the real life harm of all the people being harassed and receiving death threats because jones and his ilk have been spewing their crisis actor narrative that goes beyond sandy hook. how about the gunman going into a pizza parlor because jones and friends convinced him that there was a secret child sex dungeon in the basement? the lies they tell to make a buck are starting to lead to real life action, and if platform owners decide they don't want to be left holding the bag when sum nutbag finally shoots up a federal reserve building that's their business.
there are tons of things in this world to worry about. crackpots losing access to a few platforms is absolutely not one of them. on my list it's just below the flavor of my semen.
and to address a few things:
1) the proud boys are in fact racist. if you can't accept that well whatever. their ideology is still repugnant no matter how you slice it. gavin is scum. this is the conclusion i have come to after looking into the organization for the better part of a year.
2) you don't hear anything about yemen because we have salman bin abdulaziz al saud's dick buried so far down our throat he's nutting directly into our stomach. also it's brown people blowing up brown people so nobody cares. anybody who has even the slightest knowledge of us foreign policy or has noticed that the us govt has been silent on the issue knows that we're supporting the saudis in the conflict. it's part of a growing proxy war with iran.
3) speaking of iran, again anybody who paid the slightest bit of attention during the bush administration (even though it stretches back decades farther) could see that we've been itching to start a war with iran. it's part of why we were all chummy with saddam hussein until he invaded kuwait and the saudis demanded bush sr. intervene on their behalf because they couldn't figure out how to use all those arms and war planes the us and britain sold them. anybody paying attention to the trump administration can see that the deck is stacked with people who want to go to war with iran. john fucking bolton is his national security advisor.
4) how much you hear about climate change depends entirely on where you get your news from. are you in a sinclair broadcasting market and watching an affiliate they own? you're probably not going to hear much about it. you'll also not hear much about labor issues or other topics that a more liberal minded station would talk about. you can also see the lack of discussion as a reflection of the current administration and the chilling effect of its anti-science stance.
I will have to check the video out when I have wifi. I do think we are forced to censor ourselves far more than we used to, and I am not really sure if I blame technology (social media and the likes) or not. I am sure this is an issue. Makes me think of Monty Python (Help! Help! I'm being oppressed!). I actually think loss of privacy, or the threat of that loss is far more concerning.
Edit: leave Colbert out of this. He is funny
Second edit: the us is more at risk for becoming communist at the moment, in my opinion
I'll do some research and respond later, Dildo. And I'll include references so you can check my work.
My argument is that you have only seen the prosecution's evidence, anybody can be convicted of anything in a kangaroo court.
P.s. if you are social parasite, it's nice to see you still around.
P.p.s. Jinx: Communism is authoritarian. Maybe not in ideology, but every communist society ever has been authoritarian. A real communist society would be stateless and require that all participants are engaging of their own free will. Like, for example, if you joined a commune.
We are getting a new brand of corporate authoritarianism or even totalitarianism. The far left are being allowed to condition the population over petty identity nonsense, but they won't be the ones holding power when all is said and done.
On second thought, I'm done. It doesn't matter who believes what, it can't change anything so what's the point.
And maybe I'm losing my mind, or maybe we really are on the brink of societal collapse. I do know that there are warnings literally everywhere that something is really wrong, obvious things that should be apparent to everyone. Shit just is not normal, almost everything is in this bizarre state of chaos, all around us.
Maybe we'll be fine, maybe it's all just about seizing control of the internet so that everyone will go back to not questioning democracy or capitalism and get back to consuming. Maybe it will end there, and we'll all be able to go back to pretending until the sun swallows us up.
But whatever, doesn't matter, maybe it is better to just believe that everything is fine.
Certain people have a nature where they see gloom-and-doom wherever they look. The United States has problems and always had problems and always will have problems. We'll continue to deal with them without collapsing.
quote:Originally posted by GoFuckYourselves! Certain people have a nature where they see gloom-and-doom wherever they look. The United States has problems and always had problems and always will have problems. We'll continue to deal with them without collapsing.
Good morning, go fuck yourselves. I've been thinking again, which means there is an essay incoming.
I really think you underestimate the state of the world and the sheer number of ways it is going off the rails. These aren't the same old problems we've always had that will just work themselves out, that is what is frustrating me here.
I think it would be interesting, and revealing, to see data on whether oligarchs have stopped having kids, and if so when. It looks very much like they are panicking, they are cashing out of society on a grand scale. That's a big part of the equation here, because they are the people who actually do know the whole truth, maybe the only people. There are so many decisions being made that make no rational sense if everything is just fine.
In an effort to prove that I am not off my rocker, at least for my own sake, I'm going to try to explain my perspective. And again, I'm not alone in seeing things this way, this isn't all some personal conspiratorial fantasy that exists only in my head.
Firstly, let me tell you a little about Dingle in 2018 for context as to how this thread that is titled "Free Speech", and was intended to be about free speech, immediately escalated to the entirety of all threats to civilization, because at this point I kind of wish I could start this thread over.
I quit drinking altogether, or maybe it is more accurate to say for the most part, at least 10 years ago. Whether or not I was ever an alcoholic is debatable. I would argue no, because I have known many real alcoholics and it is something entirely different, but there is no doubt that alcohol has caused a lot of problems for me and made my life much more difficult than it should have been. Even the good it did me with easing social anxiety was often a curse when I ended up saying or doing something stupid and regrettable, and then tormenting myself about it for way too long.
Today, I am one with the herb. I like to go pretty deep with the edibles. I cringe at the thought of some of my old posts on this board defending the drug war, not to mention some other stupid positions I once held, like defending the Iraq war after 9/11 which is the king of my stupid. My point is, I've come to the realization that BnB was ahead of his time.
Marijuana has lost a lot of its stigma, and I have a lot to say about it in general (maybe I'll make another thread), but I just want to make this one point as well as I can to correct a common misconception (and you may already know all of this, or maybe even imbibe yourself).
Getting high does not mean getting dumb. It is a thinking man's tool, from the outside it appears that people who are stoned are somehow mentally impaired, as if their minds have shut down, but it is just the opposite. People shut down from the outside because they are forced inside their own heads to follow their own thoughts deeply into the recesses of their minds, thoughts that they would normally let go of just to get on with their lives.
When you push it far enough, it is an experience that can really teach a person an awful lot about themselves, and their blind spots, and their mistakes. So what appears as seeing things unclearly is actually a matter of seeing things way too clearly, so clearly that it is often panic inducing. It is a kind of forced and brutal, no-bullshit honesty that most people spend their entire lives resisting. It is the only way (for me) to make any progress on the ultimate questions, to really drop the bullshit and try to figure out my meaning in life, what my purpose is, or whether I even have one. People think they want to ask the grand questions, yet they actively avoid the answers, because the answers don't give a shit about your feelings. It can really be brutal.
It can be such an introspective and revealing experience that it can quickly become overwhelming. It destroys all of the barriers that people unconsciously put up to shield themselves from uncomfortable thoughts and ideas so that they are forced to tackle them head on. All of this is also why weed and anxiety go hand in hand. I have never experienced anything more stressful, or motivating, than an anxiety attack that is triggered by being forced, against my will, into acknowledging the gravity of the personal consequences of my own poor decisions. I've also found that being inside my own head is where I am most comfortable, it is the only truly judgement-free zone any of us have access to, and it is the only place we can truly seek out and understand our own personal truths.
I imagine you could think of another discussion that we've engaged in recently where a lot of this is relevant.
I am not telling you any of this as an excuse, I don't regret what I believe, I just regret the way it all comes spilling out of me in such a chaotic manner, but that can be hard to prevent when you have to disable your filters to honestly confront what you think you know. I've re-read this thread a few times, and I don't blame anybody for not watching that video because I seem like I've lost my mind. I realize that it is happening again right now with this post, that I am over-sharing my thoughts, but with the way that this 'discussion' has taken place I think it is necessary.
All of these things came out because they are all tightly intertwined, it is really hard to separate them. Maybe freedom of speech isn't as important to you as it is to me, but in the context of the bigger picture, at this point in history, it is the most important tool we have. Not only the most important, but due to the internet it is absolutely the most powerful weapon that has ever been handed to the people, and the biggest threat that the ruling class has ever faced.
That is why they came for it, and after the 2016 elections anybody who spent even a minute thinking could see that they would be coming. The internet was our best and only chance to ever actually progress towards the ultimate ideal, peace on earth. That was the best opportunity that we've ever been afforded to build a true egalitarian society that worked for people rather than power. And we are just watching it fade away without a fight. Or even worse than that, we are demanding and cheering on its demise.
That is why all of this social unrest is being allowed to continue. It is the cover for what is really happening behind the curtain. Or maybe it is the curtain. That is also why I am so passionate about this, and why I can come across as desperate or unhinged. I just have this urge to make people understand exactly what they are sacrificing for all of this petty nonsense that would not have earned a mention in a local newspaper 10 years ago, yet today has been elevated to the status of international news. We are sacrificing everything for it, every ideal, every goal, all hope for humanity, in exchange for the brief moment of satisfaction we get by branding people nazis so that we can make them suffer for their perceived crimes. I think there is something really sick about a movement whose core goal is rooting out and nailing ideological opponents to a cross, this conversion by force is the most counter-productive approach I can imagine.
I'm reminded of the Salem witch trials, and how I used to think about the people of that time, how unsophisticated they must have been to allow that to happen. But now I have a whole new insight, because we are witnessing the most advanced and sophisticated society that has ever existed engaging in the same behavior. What is happening is a witch-hunt, by definition. I'm just so confused, and disappointed, that people are so easily willing to accept that this is all business as usual. We have never seen the entire planet in such a chaotic state, this is the furthest we've ever strayed from 'normal' in the entire history of modern civilization, if not ever. Our constitution rights have been systematically disappearing for years, and nobody cares. Do you think they ever plan to give any of them back? If the constitution means nothing, I mean, what the fuck are we doing?!
So that is the core of my concerns. I don't think I have a warped worldview, I think that it is undeniable that we are collectively making fatal decisions. Now that you can, hopefully, understand my vantage point, try to see what I have said in that context. The media is lying across the board, that is a claim that can be verified. People, on a massive scale, have a perception of the state of society that doesn't fit reality from any angle.
I really wanted to do some research and provide a factual rebuttal to SP, just as much for myself as for him. I have no interest in defending a white nationalist organization, and if there was really evidence that the Proud Boys are a band of racists, I honestly want to know. But I immediately realized that all of the proud boys twitter history has been disappeared. It is pretty convenient for the narrative that we can't even fact check whether or not they are a band of racists (something that I have yet to see any actual evidence of).
The Proud Boys, to my understanding, are a multi-racial, conservative, Men's Rights organization. They exist to counter the narrative that men are inherently violent, power seeking misogynists who have spent the whole of history oppressing minorities. They are people who are proud to be boys. I believe that is why they are being run out of town, not because they are white nationalists. There is evidence of this, and a deafening lack of it to the contrary.
This is what passes for due process in America now. This is all it takes to tarnish, attack, and silence an entire group of ideological opponents with one broad stroke. In time we won't even be able to fact check any official stories at all. No doubt that is the end game, that is how you completely co-opt personal autonomy on a massive scale without anybody even realizing it. If you don't think that is dystopian, I don't know what else I can say.
I could take the time and effort to compile a compelling and factual case, but to what end? All the evidence in the world can't counter ideological beliefs, because those beliefs aren't based in evidence. Rational arguments are ineffective against religious beliefs, and at the end of the day, even if I could convince hundreds of people it wouldn't change things. We're already on this ride and it's only getting faster. Maybe at this point it is cruel to try to force people to contemplate a terrifying and miserable dystopian future if they have no chance to save themselves from it.
The truth rarely exists in rhetoric, it's only ever in there at all when it is convenient to the narrative, but it is always present in action; watch what they do, not what they say. By that standard we are nothing but a species of fat, greedy, self-indulgent fucks who like to loudly pontificate about a grand society that prioritizes compassion, harmony, and minimizing suffering above all else, but when it comes down to it we have failed to let good supersede greed at at every opportunity, and we've had plenty of chances.
Maybe we don't deserve our fate as individuals, but as a species we are a plague on the universe and this rock would be better off without us. The biggest shame is that the trillions of other living creatures who have had no hand in any of this, the truly innocent, are suffering for our sins as well.
"The world is an overwhelming place for those of us who feel, see and know."
I agree that the social media sites are privately owned and would challenge that the shape they take depends on litigation issues they face. I do not think facebook or Twitter really wanted to censor people, but in the face of a hefty lawsuit, and with precedence being set, there will always be repercussions. At least, as I see it, the entire sites are not shutting down. There are other means to access the sites. The principle of banning sites does bring some discomfort. Maybe that is why I always liked this place in part - nothing was too tabu. To validate my point, the local news released this: https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/sci-t...source=facebook going to show you that your privacy is borderline non-existant. And I would challenge that no matter how secure something may seem, there will always be someone threatening that security. If you are online, you are probably at risk of being watched. To me that is a far more threatening concept. I will always be able to go on a street corner and scream my political beliefs (not really - I work for the feds and we are not allowed to actually publically identify with a political affiliation).
Maybe, Jinx. This may all just be these companies independently reacting to an outrage campaign (though, we already know that they did not all act independently, they coordinated with each other at the least). I think that is a bit naive, but I will acknowledge that it is a possibility, and that I blew this whole thing way out of control.
Ignoring all of the ways that this is an infringement of free speech, and how these companies need to be regulated as if they are public utilities, I am still extremely skeptical that this is not an attempt to subvert the first amendment via loophole.
The line between corporations and government has been blurred at best, and erased completely at worst. These companies are some of the world's biggest lobbyists, and they are desperate not to be regulated. We can't know exactly how deeply their claws are into government, or vice versa, but we already do know that they are taking direction from the government and colluding with intelligence agencies in other regards. It's not rational to conclude that they are acting innocently for the greater good, without any scrutiny or critical thought, in this one instance.
That video up there talks about a sitting senator publicly cheering on the censorship campaign, and demanding it be escalated. How is that not our government demanding censorship? Is that not a textbook first amendment violation? (I realize you're a Canuck)
This is the ultimate wet dream of every corrupt politician and inspiring dictator to ever curse the universe with their existence, and by using private corporations to circumvent the Bill of Rights they not only avoid any criticism or backlash, but the masses actually stand up to cheer it on.
Politicians, corporations, and intelligence agencies lie all the time. Literally every time they say anything it is a lie. Everything that comes out of their mouths is 'public relations', it is all prepared statements and rehearsed rhetoric to influence public opinion, cover up their misdeeds, minimize their own accountability, or to manufacture consent for whatever scheme they are concocting next. And on top of that, there is virtually no individual accountability here, these are giant faceless organizations, there is no fear of being individually held accountable for what they say or do as corporation. How do people still trust any of these people? Seriously, how can anybody trust anything that these people say, ever?
We really have to break this "I like [brand_name], so they can't be evil" mindset. They are all evil. Their priorities are and always will be money, power, and influence, our rights aren't even on the list.
I hope you're right, Jinx. I just don't see any reason to believe it.
P.S. don't even get me started on privacy, just the thought of opening that can of worms raises my blood pressure.
The 1% rule the world. Generally politicians are just figureheads. I see your point about the politician and censorship though. It is a bit odd. I guess people with the right pull dictate what is allowed, but that has been true for awhile. Maybe now it is just more out in the opened. By the same token, free will is limited too, but I do not want to get sad thinking too much today. It is too sunny and warm.
It is more out in the open now, because we have been trained to believe that this is normal.
Remember all of the outrage over Iraq and Afghanistan? 20 years later, deafening silence as we continue our campaign to install puppet dictatorships across the entire middle east, and it looks like Africa is on the list as well.
They've held our hand through all of this, they have normalized it. This is mass mind control, we have somehow been convinced to accept that a world domination campaign by the most powerful empire ever is justified and good, because the alternative is uncomfortable to contemplate, and extremely difficult to solve.
Maybe this wasn't a grand conspiracy from the beginning. Maybe we did this to ourselves by reverting to tribalistic animals and obsessing with petty nonsense within our own echo chambers, and the rulers are simply taking advantage of the unguarded doors that we left open. At this point it doesn't really matter, it is happening.
Over the course of 20 years, anybody can be manipulated into accepting anything if they don't have their guard up, if they have learned nothing from history.
Nazi's were not all (or even mostly) inherently evil, the citizens of 1940 Germany were not terrible people. That logic would imply that ~70 million evil people were all born in the same country at the same time in history.
They were human beings, just like us, and we all share the same susceptibilities and weaknesses. They were identical to ourselves, and not even very long ago.
If you or I were citizens of Germany at that time, having been brought up in that culture and exposed to their propaganda, we very likely would have been Nazi supporters too. And we would have thought that we were right, and good. How is that for an uncomfortable thought?
quote:Originally posted by Dingle
...Over the course of 20 years, anybody can be manipulated into accepting anything if they don't have their guard up, if they have learned nothing from history. ...
Just 20 years? That’s a drop in the bucket. You have no idea how long the manipulation and indoctrination has been going on.
I’ve noticed over the years how passionate, zealous, and even wildly fanatical, people can become over beliefs held with little to no personal investment in source(s) scrutiny. And, yes, I’m thinking about the C.S.A., although that’s not the only example.
Many profess to have an “open mind”, but in practice their minds are receptive only to input compatible with their beliefs. One former active member flatly said to me that he was pretty “hard-wired” about the North and South. This meant it was pointless to even attempt to discuss it because he already knew everything about it that was worth knowing. That was both funny and sad. Though smart, talented and capable, he knew virtually nothing about the subject beyond the canned government history script.
And ever noticed how those who scream the loudest often know the least?
" Future years will never know the seething hell and the black infernal background of countless minor scenes and interiors, (not the official surface courteousness of the Generals, not the few great battles) of the Secession war; and it is best they should notï¿½the real war will never get in the books." ~ Walt Whitman