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Trenchant_Troll
ad hominid

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 44689

Bill Nye has an engineering degree. I'm just sayin'.

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Old Post 06-06-2019 08:11 PM
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Trenchant_Troll
ad hominid

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 44689

quote:
Originally posted by fubar
Do serious climatologists hang out in tomato circles a lot? Or vice versa?

I work in this field, with these scientists and their data. We are all very serious about it. We all take a scientific view and go where the data lead us. Every scientist I know would like nothing better than to prove a common scientific view wrong. After all, we are all a little vain. Nobody would let an untruth slide when there was acclaim to be had.

Any climatologist will tell you that climate changes over time because that's what climate does. What the vast majority will tell you is that while the atmosphere isn't the hottest it's ever been, it is heating up faster than is historically usual.

When you say things like "shit science" or "everyone has to have a religion", what you are really doing is telling me that you are punching beyond your intellect.

And I don't mean that as an insult. All of us know less about more things than the number of things we know well.

I won't even tell you to just admit that every idea you have about climate change is based on someone else's unfounded conjecture. This thread is enough evidence that doesn't work.

But the real pity of this thread is that at the very least, LF understood some of it.



No he didn't. Perhaps you can tap your expertise and tell me what conditions would have to be observed in order for the Global Warming theory to be proven wrong. Every real scientific theory has a nullifying element. And the argument isn't "climate change", it's "Global Warming". The climate changes every day and has for 4.5 billion years. The warmists changed from global warming to climate change when the globe didn't warm as they predicted.

So, go ahead and crunch your data to prove your theory in the absence of empirical evidence and good luck convincing a world that doubts the story more with each passing year. As for me, I could be convinced with compelling evidence, but no such compelling evidence exists. If you wish to insist it does, then show it to me; but models created from faulty data is not going to convince me.

Just out of curiosity, have you taken any time to look into the opposition's arguments or do you just write them off as "deniers"? If you do, the first thing you will see is that there is no consensus on this matter. That Warmist claim is an outright lie.

Whatever.

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Old Post 06-06-2019 08:30 PM
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Muffy
Crika bait

Registered: Oct 2007
Location:
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quote:
Originally posted by Trenchant_Troll
And the argument isn't "climate change", it's "Global Warming".
According to Trump it's now "extreme weather", which shows he officially has less understanding thn LF on the issue. Just sayin'

Frankly, I find this argument pointless. TT, you don't seem to disagree that there are prudential reasons to take a more responsible attitude with regard to polution and fucking up the planet etc. Really, I think that's the main thing. As long as people are motivated to try and change things, I don't care what motivates them (hell, most of us are motivated by self interest or fear for our children rather than the inherent value of the planet, if we want to get right down to things).

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Old Post 06-06-2019 08:50 PM
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Large Filipino
Fuck me hard in my arse.

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: in colorado somewhere!
Posts: 53161

NOAH'S ARK NEEDED FLOOD INSURANCE WAKE UP EVERYONE

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Old Post 06-06-2019 08:56 PM
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Large Filipino
Fuck me hard in my arse.

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: in colorado somewhere!
Posts: 53161

Soon,Colorado will be primo land because it would be land locked in the next thousand years.

https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicat...ators-sea-level

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Old Post 06-06-2019 09:00 PM
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fubar
mud falcon

Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:
Originally posted by Trenchant_Troll

No he didn't.



I meant that weather is what is happening right now. I do have a pretty low bar for LF.


quote:
Originally posted by Trenchant_Troll

The climate changes every day...



The fact that you keep saying this leads me to believe that not only do you neglect evidence presented to you, you're not even listening to what YOU are saying. Climate is not a daily occurance. Oddly, LF gets this point.


quote:
Originally posted by Trenchant_Troll

tap your expertise and tell me what conditions would have to be observed in order for the Global Warming theory to be proven wrong.



For me (and the rest of the scientific climatic scientific community) to NOT see drastically increasing precipitation events in some places, and drastically decreased in others. Islands in Indonesia not disappearing under the ocean. To not have more than a decade of dramatically increased atmospheric cyclonic activity. To not have average global temperature increase for years on end. Post a picture of you with a goatse on your head if you actually read this part.


quote:
Originally posted by Trenchant_Troll

...crunch your data to prove your theory in the absence of empirical evidence and good luck convincing a world that doubts the story more with each passing year...



What the world thinks of facts has zero bearing on the facts. Rare is the flat earther who can be swayed by math, let alone science.


quote:
Originally posted by Trenchant_Troll

...the first thing you will see is that there is no consensus on this matter...



Religious people say the same thing about a young earth. One or two lucky stupid people who stumbled into scientific degrees do not wag the Dog of Facts.



quote:
Originally posted by Trenchant_Troll

And the argument isn't "climate change", it's "Global Warming".



For all intents and purposes, it's the same thing. If this pedantry is where you hang your hat, I'm through trying to convince you of anything. You don't care about the actual issue.

quote:
Originally posted by Trenchant_Troll

I could be convinced with compelling evidence, but no such compelling evidence exists.



This single statement says more about your stance on the topic than any other you've made. You don't review any of the evidence provided to you. You don't provide any evidence of your own. And perhaps that's because you aren't capable of understanding the facts and science related to the topic of debate? I'm not saying you aren't, but you're sure making a good case against yourself.

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Old Post 06-06-2019 11:52 PM
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Trenchant_Troll
ad hominid

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 44689

Whatever. Your in so deep you're part of the machinery of this scam. Think what you want, but it will be you who will be in for a surprise one day. The religious one is you, fubar, but I don't hold it against you since in other areas you keep an open mind. I meant it when I said I don't want to argue about this anymore. You haven't convinced me and I don't want to convince anyone. Nuff said.

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Old Post 06-07-2019 06:42 AM
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fubar
mud falcon

Registered: Apr 2005
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So, what's the payoff to the scam?

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Old Post 06-07-2019 01:39 PM
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Trenchant_Troll
ad hominid

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 44689

You're joking, right?

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Old Post 06-07-2019 03:22 PM
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Muffy
Crika bait

Registered: Oct 2007
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I think the better question is who stands to lose if it's not a scam.

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Old Post 06-07-2019 07:29 PM
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fubar
mud falcon

Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:
Originally posted by Trenchant_Troll
You're joking, right?


I'm not on board with your conspiracy theory, so I don't automatically understand what you think the benefit is.

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Old Post 06-07-2019 08:01 PM
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GoFuckYourselves!
#1 Asylum Dumbfuck!

Registered: Oct 2000
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Posts: 18718

Maybe Trenchant doesn't think it's a conspiracy but just thinks that their conclusions are wrong. There is a difference.

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Old Post 06-09-2019 11:50 AM
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Muffy
Crika bait

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One thing my discipline taught me is that where there is a lack of empirical evidence, yet you must draw a conclusion, you try to make the most rational inference. This is actually a lot harder than it sounds. People have to be able to take a long, hard look at their rationality and be objective as possible, otherwise, preferences and assumptions get in the way.

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Old Post 06-10-2019 12:52 AM
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Trenchant_Troll
ad hominid

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 44689

Lol.

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Old Post 06-10-2019 05:19 AM
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Muffy
Crika bait

Registered: Oct 2007
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Which part are you loling at? The claim that conclusions that aren't based on empirical evidence should be based on rational inference, or the claim that this is harder to do than it sounds?

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Old Post 06-10-2019 05:56 AM
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plum
Last Man

Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:
Originally posted by fubar
So, what's the payoff to the scam?


If global warming is a scam, it means we can freely exploit and destroy our mother nature without limits or repercussions. Hooray! But if it's real- if the world really is round- then you'll have to consider that you can't keep depleting your principal and expect the same interest- at some point you have to make a new investment. You'll need to invest in space propulsion technology.

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Old Post 06-10-2019 07:05 AM
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Trenchant_Troll
ad hominid

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 44689

Y'all just can't stand the idea that we "heretics" exist. It is much easier to admire the emperor's new outfit than it is to point out that he's as naked as a jaybird. But hey, we "deniers" are just like flat-Earthers, right? Whatever makes you feel better. I couldn't care less what anyone here thinks of me for not falling for this scheme. According to most AGW "brain trusts" all sorts of dire events were supposed to have happened by now, none of which has taken place. When the globe didn't warm, and still hasn't since 1995, the name was changed to an all-encompassing "climate change", as if THAT was something new. Then they called the halt in warming a "pause". How convenient that they could call it a pause before it had ended. How do you know it's a pause unless it has ended, thus indicating whether it was a pause or not. If only y'all knew how silly you look believing this nonsense, but you think the same of me. So be it. I say believe what you want. Sooner or later we will know who was right. I can wait, can you?

In the meantime, I'm going to support efforts to combat real environmental threats. What're you going to do?

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Old Post 06-10-2019 08:14 AM
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Trenchant_Troll
ad hominid

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 44689

quote:
Originally posted by Muffy
Which part are you loling at? The claim that conclusions that aren't based on empirical evidence should be based on rational inference, or the claim that this is harder to do than it sounds?


In my book, empirical evidence trumps everything else.

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Old Post 06-10-2019 08:16 AM
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Muffy
Crika bait

Registered: Oct 2007
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Well of course it does, it's just not always available. This is why you have entire areas of study into how to come up with the next best thing (e.g. logical positivism and verificationism etc). Otherwise, logic and mathematics, both rather important skills to have when reasoning, are limited to tautologies. Geeze - crack open some Wittgenstein.

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Old Post 06-10-2019 09:22 AM
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fubar
mud falcon

Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:
Originally posted by fubar

I gather the FACT that the average global temperature hasn't risen measurably in over 20 years doesn't impress you at all? I won't even get into the doctored data scandals. But, as I said, I'm done arguing about this foolishness. You believe what you want and I'll believe what I want. Someday we'll find out who believed correctly and that will be that. Meanwhile, I'll keep donating to environmental causes that matter and you can wring your hands over global warming.

The End



Interesting that you edited this onto my response instead of adding it as a new reply.

Ignorance is forgivable. Dishonesty isn't. And dishonest ignorance is the worst.

I was looking forward to a resurgence of the asylum. Unfortunately, it has a malignant cancer that cannot be cured.

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Old Post 06-11-2019 02:58 AM
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Muffy
Crika bait

Registered: Oct 2007
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Fubar, you so totally kicked his arse in this argument that I'm not surprised at the above. Take it as a compliment Poke him some more with your actual understanding of science and watch him pretend he knows stuff. It's fun!

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Old Post 06-11-2019 03:10 AM
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fubar
mud falcon

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This was never an argument. He didn't start this thread with the intent of exchanging ideas and trying to both understand and Express differing points of view. People like this aren't fun anymore. They're time consuming and boring.

I'm glad you're here, muffy. I wish more people open to debate would come back before this place breathes its last.

I don't have to be right. I enjoy having my mind changed. I want to believe as many true things as possible.

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Old Post 06-11-2019 03:34 AM
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Muffy
Crika bait

Registered: Oct 2007
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If this place isn't going to die (more), people like TT need to differentiate between debate and being a stubborn old goat. Debate is fun, flogging a dead horse isn't. I just love a good argument. However, I must admit I also take a perverse delight in looking at argument styles, especially the bad ones, so it's still fun for me, even if I know the person "arguing" isn't going to change their mind.

In this argument, I find it rather amusing that TT keeps on going back to the empirical evidence thing and challenging you to find falsifiable criteria, as we all know that this is a cornerstone of natural sciences. However, where the actual intelligent argument happens, where the scientists shine and show their worth, is in all the stuff that goes in to taking the data we do have and trying to reason their way through it in a useful manner. In this area TT falls over spectacularly. So, it's like an entire thread of him jumping up and down making a claim that no one is really going to argue with and most people understand that while empirical evidence is an objective, it's still just a small part of the overall picture. That must surely be an exemplar of "narrow mind"? I don't know whether to pat him on the head for proving he knows science should be based on empirical evidence, or send him to the naughty corner for being so fucking banal.

TT, you can't have an empirical truth claim about the future of global warming, or climate change, or even the fucking weather. It's just not fucking possible. Your argument is completely redundant. It's impossible for these claims to be either verifiable OR FALSIFIABLE you goddamn idiot. Jesus, I dropped enough hints at this but you just puffed on with your "EMPIRICAL!!!" Looking like a first class twat who doesn't understand the very basic elements of making a well-constructed point. What a spectacular fail. I suggest you leave it to the scientists to figure out what is PROBABLE.

OMG - I've been holding that back for a week. I hate to smack people over the head with the stupid stick too badly as it leads to people not wanting to engage in discussion (TT, you'd do well to heed that)............ but it felt so damn good.

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Old Post 06-11-2019 04:20 AM
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fubar
mud falcon

Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:
Originally posted by Muffy
...it leads to people not wanting to engage in discussion...


Which has been the death of the asylum.

When I go back and read my posts from a decade or so ago, I'm a bit ashamed that I so rarely took part in debates (though I do enjoy some of my funnier posts).

There were so many good conversations here that I was not intelligent enough, or mature enough, whatever, to partake in. But what I did do, between all the cracking wise and point whoring, was to put some of the topics and points away in the corners of my mind and ruminate on them.

I'd like to think that over time, they have changed me for the better in most cases.

I wasn't kidding when I said I grew here. I learned how to listen. How to disagree constructively. How not to take disagreement personally.

I love this place. I genuinely miss what it once was and wish that I could have been this me, here, when it was relevant. Sadly, everything changes. Not always for the better.

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Old Post 06-11-2019 05:12 AM
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Trenchant_Troll
ad hominid

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 44689

Y'all are very impressed with yourselves and that's ok. I owe each and every one of you absolutely nothing, so that is what you get. You can consider me an ignorant old fart and I'd probably agree with you. Then again, I'm not the one claiming to have the answer. I'm just enjoying making fun of what I consider to be your gullibility. I must say that Muffy's last post was highly amusing.

Anyhoo, carry on with your master debating and ignore this old fool.

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Old Post 06-11-2019 08:28 AM
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