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J E B Stuart
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Reparations?

I am against it, but my mind is open for business

Amen.

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Old Post 07-06-2019 08:26 AM
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GoFuckYourselves!
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It makes no sense and serves no purpose to hand over cash to Black individuals.

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Old Post 07-06-2019 03:48 PM
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Large Filipino
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We owe the entire world reparations.
Hi hi hi

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Old Post 07-07-2019 03:46 AM
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Dude111
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Yes I guess Large Filipino!!

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Old Post 07-07-2019 01:02 PM
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Trenchant_Troll
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Who is going to pay reparations to the some 350K dead and maimed Union soldiers who fought in part to emancipate the slaves from their Democrat owners. Most of those men had never seen a black man. Blacks never offer so much as a "thank you" for this ultimate sacrifice. When I hear about reparations I start to feel a tinge of regret that the Union was able to unconstitutionally force Southern states to remain in the United States. We don't owe today's blacks a cotton-picking thing, pardon the pun.

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Old Post 07-07-2019 06:18 PM
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J E B Stuart
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2020 Democratic hopeful Sen. Kamala Harris of California introduced an ambitious $100 billion plan to increase minority homeownership. ...

"So we must right that wrong and after generations of discrimination give black families a real shot at homeownership -- historically one of the most powerful drivers of wealth in our country," Harris told the crowd... .
”. From here.

The first question that came to mind is whether this is in addition to reparations and I think the answer is “yes”.

Amen.

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" Future years will never know the seething hell and the black infernal background of countless minor scenes and interiors, (not the official surface courteousness of the Generals, not the few great battles) of the Secession war; and it is best they should not�the real war will never get in the books." ~ Walt Whitman

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Old Post 07-07-2019 08:06 PM
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GoFuckYourselves!
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This is one reason of many why Trump will win again.

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Old Post 07-08-2019 02:25 AM
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J E B Stuart
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Just so there’s no mistaking where several of the major candidates stand on reparations:



Amen.

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" Future years will never know the seething hell and the black infernal background of countless minor scenes and interiors, (not the official surface courteousness of the Generals, not the few great battles) of the Secession war; and it is best they should not�the real war will never get in the books." ~ Walt Whitman

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Old Post 07-08-2019 06:03 AM
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GoFuckYourselves!
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I have all the respect in the world for Michael Myers, particularly as a Black man, for speaking publicly and labelling this idea of reparations as "bufoonery." He also refers to it as a "scam," which it is. Trump has to be thrilled with these candidates and their views.

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Old Post 07-08-2019 11:56 AM
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Muffy
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A spectacularly stupid idea. However, Kamala's proposed "Lift Act" bill would help poor people, not specifically black people (although there is the obvious overlap). Julian Castro wants to give people money just for having a slave or two in their ancestry (which would include quite a few "white" people and wealthy people) and Cory Booker wants to give everyone trust funds - which kind of makes Kamala's proposal look a lot better.

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Old Post 07-09-2019 01:28 AM
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J E B Stuart
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quote:
Originally posted by Trenchant_Troll
Who is going to pay reparations to the some 350K dead and maimed Union soldiers who fought in part to emancipate the slaves from their Democrat owners. ...

Good post, old bean, but please allow me to provide some food-for-thought pertaining to the portion of your post parsed out, above. Consider these facts:

a) March 4, 1861 ~ Lincoln’s first inauguration in which he clearly stated in his first address:

...I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.

Those who nominated and elected me did so with full knowledge that I had made this and many similar declarations and had never recanted them... .
”; and

b) April 12, 1861 ~ Official start date of The War To Abolish Southern Independence a/k/a The Civil War.

Amen.

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" Future years will never know the seething hell and the black infernal background of countless minor scenes and interiors, (not the official surface courteousness of the Generals, not the few great battles) of the Secession war; and it is best they should not�the real war will never get in the books." ~ Walt Whitman

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Old Post 07-09-2019 06:31 PM
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GoFuckYourselves!
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I was waiting for you to post this because I remember you have previously pointed out the reason for the Civil War on these pages.

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Old Post 07-09-2019 07:46 PM
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Trenchant_Troll
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quote:
Originally posted by J E B Stuart
Good post, old bean, but please allow me to provide some food-for-thought pertaining to the portion of your post parsed out, above. Consider these facts:

a) March 4, 1861 ~ Lincoln’s first inauguration in which he clearly stated in his first address:

...I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.

Those who nominated and elected me did so with full knowledge that I had made this and many similar declarations and had never recanted them... .
”; and

b) April 12, 1861 ~ Official start date of The War To Abolish Southern Independence a/k/a The Civil War.

Amen.



Ayup, and never mind that the Civil War was just that: a war between the government and the governed. It was fought to keep the Southern states in the fold far more than it was to free the negro from his bondage. The latter was a humanitarian fringe benefit, so to speak. Most of all, the Civil War was wholly unconstitutional, but the Constitution hasn't meant a whole lot since its ink dried.

There's a whole lot more to the American story than they cram into empty young skulls nowadays.

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Old Post 07-10-2019 03:41 AM
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fubar
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If you have time, find a series of audio lectures by James Loewen on many historical subjects, but one of my favorites was his taking a state textbook review board to court because they didn't buy the history textbook he had written.

He knew they weren't going to buy it, and that was the point. History textbooks have a lot of omissions, misrepresentations, and errors, and his was verifiable and verified by scores of historians and historical sociologists, and had been trialed in a classroom setting where the kids actually enjoyed the class. there was even a picture of a lynching in the book.

The audio files are free if you can find them. This particular one was called Loewen et al. v. Turnipseed, et al. One of my favorite audio lectures ever.

*edit*
Here is the audiobook I was talking about. It was a free download when I found them years ago.

The reviews make good points, but I never got the feeling that he was self-righteous. He seems to look for the truth regardless of how uncomfortable it may be.

Last edited by fubar on 07-10-2019 at 04:46 PM

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Old Post 07-10-2019 04:33 PM
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Muffy
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I think most countries like to sweep their dirty history under the carpet. In NZ, we study slavery in the USA, apartheid in South Africa, the holocaust, etc. but we don't talk about what we did to the Maori, or what the Maori did to the colonists - as members of the Commonwealth, we don't talk about all the fucked up shit England did to pretty much everyone. I suppose that is understandable, but what really irks me is how seeking the truth tends to get you into trouble. I remember being sent to the Principal's office when I was about 7 or 8 when I asked about the Maori practice of cannibalism. To this day the official line is that there are "mixed views" on whether it occurred (even though the contemporaneous evidence isn't mixed, it's only more recent "retellings" of history that cloud the issue). Eventually, it will all be so watered down that no body will know what really happened and there will be a Disney movie where Trump pulls a firey sword out of some famous rock and uses it to slay the evil dark wizard Obama and Hillary the swamp witch. Some hollywood hunk will play Trump as a breathtakingly handsome and humble man in his early twenties...and so on.

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Old Post 07-10-2019 11:28 PM
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rust
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Muffy, my kindergarten teacher told the principal to call my parents for a meeting, because I colored bananas in art, green rather than yellow. She, a nigger, apparently had never seen fresh vegetables. Why do I mention this? Idk, bananas aren't even vegetables.

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Old Post 07-11-2019 03:32 AM
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J E B Stuart
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Rust? How did the meeting go? Don’t leave us hangin’, goddammit. 🍌🍌🍌

Amen.

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" Future years will never know the seething hell and the black infernal background of countless minor scenes and interiors, (not the official surface courteousness of the Generals, not the few great battles) of the Secession war; and it is best they should not�the real war will never get in the books." ~ Walt Whitman

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Old Post 07-11-2019 09:23 PM
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rust
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quote:
Originally posted by J E B Stuart
Rust? How did the meeting go? Don’t leave us hangin’, goddammit. 🍌🍌🍌

Amen.



The school put me with another teacher. She was young, beautiful and treated me with kindness. I remember feeling bad though, I liked the other teacher and didn't understand what was happening.

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Old Post 07-12-2019 05:22 AM
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fubar
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So, what color is your banana these days?

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Old Post 07-12-2019 03:56 PM
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Muffy
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I'm guessing it's still green.

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Old Post 07-14-2019 01:41 AM
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J E B Stuart
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I ran across an excellent opinion piece by Robert L. Woodson, Sr. that boiled the issue down to these questions:

1. How do you choose who pays and who receives payment?

2. What about the descendants of the vast majority of whites who did not own slaves, and those who fought and died to end slavery?

3. Should the descendants of black owners be made to pay?

4. What is the fair share to be paid by the Native Americans who owned slaves?

5. How do we classify people of mixed parentage, blacks who came from other countries, or whites who immigrated to America after the turn of the century?


From here.

I would add this additional question:

Should descendants of U. S. slaves who are not U. S. citizens also receive a cut?

To-date, I have not read nor heard, a single thing that might even marginally tend to persuade me that the question of reparations is nothing more than a cynically pandering phantom lollipop wagged by certain progressives and political hacks in hopes of garnering favor with some (definitely not all) “black” citizens, as well as some progressives.

Amen.

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" Future years will never know the seething hell and the black infernal background of countless minor scenes and interiors, (not the official surface courteousness of the Generals, not the few great battles) of the Secession war; and it is best they should not�the real war will never get in the books." ~ Walt Whitman

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Old Post 08-01-2019 05:59 PM
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Oracular_Jinx
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I find reparations silly because of the native Americans... I also think it is dangerous to remove statues or rename streets and towns instead of educating people on what happened. I would wager that no matter what the plan may be to pay reparations, people will be dissatisfied and instead they may put in programs or something... but look, I was a euro immigrant. I may be white but the powers that be renamed people in my family, we were also treated terribly as eastern euro immigrants... in Canadaland we have taken advantage of other minorities too - someone had to build the railroads... thanks China. My point is, you can always find people who were hard done by. I would rather tax the rich and support education in the USA than anything else because i truly believe that will have the most reuturn on investment.

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Old Post 08-02-2019 01:40 AM
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Muffy
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Good questions. I'd also add:

What is the fair share for descendants of U.S. slaves who are also descendants of U.S. slave owners?

I WANT to believe it's more than pandering for the black vote, but I can't quite get there.

One thing I have noticed is that the term "reparations" is being used to describe things that are just basic economic packages designed to give black people a leg up. For the sake of this thread I'm not going to blather on about how it's not just black people who need a leg up, but rather focus on the danger of calling such things "reparations".

The moment you call something reparations, you acknowledge that current people and future people have an obligation to descendants of past people because of the wrongdoings other past people did. This is both dumb and dangerous and leads to an inflated sense of entitlement and greed.

c.f. NZ settlement of Treaty of Waitangi issues, where Maori have been given a cut of NZ fisheries, land, money, etc. More is always wanted. Allways... Claims continue for things like salmon and airwaves rights (salmon being introduced post-colonization and airwaves should be self-explanatory). Trusts have been set up to be run by Maori, but have been abused by the Maori trustees to line their own pockets. The only ones that worked were the ones farmed out to (ironically) rich old white lawyers.

Flash forward several decades after reparations: The inflated sense of entitlement has led to escalated property crime (where I live, if it's not nailed down, a Maori will just pick it up and walk off with it... seriously, you can't even have nice garden furniture or pot plants).

NZ news is currently monopolized by two issues:

1) handing back more land worth millions because it was acquired under dodgy terms back at the time of colonization. It never ends.
2) Maori are complaining how hard done by they are that their children are constantly being taken off them by the government. But (despite all the reparations), they're still not looking after their kids (in fact, the abuse rate is horrific, children are only uplifted if their lives are in danger). The sense of unfairness is so entrenched that this is where the media attention goes, not on the poor kids whose parents keep beating them to death. No one asks "why don't Maori look after their children?", they ask "why are Maori having their children taken off them?". Think about that.

So... that's what reparations get you. Beware. I'd avoid the term altogether and stick with something that acknowledges current socio-economic disadvantages rather than spurious entitlement based on sins committed by people who have been dead for a very long time.

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Old Post 08-02-2019 02:20 AM
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rust
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quote:
Originally posted by J E B Stuart
I ran across an excellent opinion piece by Robert L. Woodson, Sr. that boiled the issue down to these questions:

1. How do you choose who pays and who receives payment?

2. What about the descendants of the vast majority of whites who did not own slaves, and those who fought and died to end slavery?

3. Should the descendants of black owners be made to pay?

4. What is the fair share to be paid by the Native Americans who owned slaves?

5. How do we classify people of mixed parentage, blacks who came from other countries, or whites who immigrated to America after the turn of the century?


From here.

I would add this additional question:

Should descendants of U. S. slaves who are not U. S. citizens also receive a cut?

To-date, I have not read nor heard, a single thing that might even marginally tend to persuade me that the question of reparations is nothing more than a cynically pandering phantom lollipop wagged by certain progressives and political hacks in hopes of garnering favor with some (definitely not all) “black” citizens, as well as some progressives.

Amen.



1. We don't.
2. Obviously any of the descendants who still don't understand they're not to blame, should be bitch slapped into oblivion.
3. They are through affirmative action, which I disagree with. Most won't complain.
4. Nothing. They wanted an easier life like everyone else.
5. Depends on the individual. If they can accept the white man's burden, then by all means do your thing. If not, then stfu and start building forts in the woods.

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Old Post 08-02-2019 08:03 AM
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J E B Stuart
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Excellent opinion piece by Rob Smith here. IMHO, he hit the nail squarely on the head:

...The issue of reparations is gaining traction today because Democrats are eager to capture the support of black voters.

The whole reparations issue is part of the grandiose plans by the Democratic presidential candidates to hand out trillions of dollars worth of “free stuff” to buy the support of different groups. ...


And not that black objections to the concept is something new:

In a 1969 interview, Rustin called a demand for $500 million in reparations from the Black Economic Development Conference “preposterous” and said the demand amounted to “hustling, begging.”

And in his essay “Equality Beyond Race,” Rustin wrote: "It is insulting to Negroes to offer them reparations for past generations for suffering, as if the balance of an irreparable past could be set straight with a handout." ...


Amen.

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