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Posted by magnolia on 06-18-2013 07:52 PM:

upcoming zimmerman trial

was going to put this in the racism thread, but perhaps it deserves consideration on its own as the nexus among several competing values rather than just racism.

in a way, this remind me of the guy who shot the woman in texas.

was it illegal for mr martin to be walking down the street? of course not.
was it illegal for mr zimmerman to be suspicious? bigoted but not illegal.
was it illegal for mr. zimmerman to follow mr martin on public sidewalks? in and of itself no. but - he was directed by a dispatcher to remain in his vehicle.
was it illegal for mr zimmerman to ignore this instruction? i don't know.
what is really not clear is what happened next. there have been voice analyses coming out of the yin yang, and gg recently posted a good article on the unreliability of several forensic tools based on lack of authentication studies. voice analysis was on that list.

here are two different scenarios: both start with mr. zimmerman following mr. martin
A) zimmerman says something to martin who 1) ignores him and keeps walking or 2)answers back, starting a hostile exchange that escalates.

A1a. zimmerman says something again, martin turns around and we go to A2.
A1b. Zimmerman pulls his gun and says something. martin turns around, sees the gun and starts to fight instead of holding still.(A1bi) gets one maybe 2 licks in the zimmerman shoots him. (A1bii) gets a lot of licks in then zimmerman shoots him. (A1biii) gets enough licks in that zimmerman actually does fear for his life, and shoots him.

or, continuing A2,
A2a mr martin starts with the physical altercation after word are exchanged because he feels threatened or insulted.( A2ai) mr martin is getting the best of mr zimmerman, so zimmerman pulls out gun and shoots martin.( A2aii) during the fight, mr martin becomes aware of the gun which at that point is not in zimmerman's hand, and the two grapple with it, but mr zimmerman ends up being able to shoot mr martin. (A2aiii) the two fight and mr martin is clearly overpowering mr zimmerman, who starts to fear for his life so he then pulls out the gun to shoot.

bottom line is that florida's stand your ground law is confusing. 776.013 (3) of the 2012 florida statutes reads
(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

so if we decide that legally, mr zimmerman was not breaking any law by following mr martin (if disobeying the dispatcher's instruction was not a felony, because if it was, different ballgame), then we have to ask who started the use of force? because that seems to be the crux of it. if zimmerman pulled his weapon on mr martin before mr. martin did anything, then mr martin had obvious reason to fear for his life. if zimmerman did not pull his weapon, we have to ask if it is possible that zimmerman's appearance/demeanor led mr martin to fear great bodily harm or death. if mr martin did not fear mr zimmerman (especially if the weapon was not yet evident), but instead figured he'd show that punk ass bitch a thing or two, then zimmerman may have been the first to fear for his life.

the problem is, we really have no way of knowing what happened exactly. the judge has ruled that the jury will not be allowed to review any of mr. martin's behavioral history unless the prosecution opens the door. i'm pretty sure they'll steer clear of it. i don't know what, if any, evidence will be allowed about mr zimmerman's behavioral history with regard to playing cop.

easy to say in hindsight that zimmerman should've stayed in his car as instructed. i'm curious as to what you think....is it more important for one possibly innocent man to be in jail to end a message that racism will not be tolerated, or is it more important for one possibly guilty man to walk free to send a message that we believe in the concept of reasonable doubt. and when i use innocent and guilty i'm talking about the legal sense, not the moral/ethical sense.

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Posted by magnolia on 06-18-2013 08:02 PM:

i think the images we hold may make a difference too.



vs

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Posted by gundamgarrett on 06-18-2013 09:04 PM:

Re: upcoming zimmerman trial

quote:
Originally posted by magnolia
was it illegal for mr zimmerman to be suspicious? bigoted but not illegal.
was it illegal for mr. zimmerman to follow mr martin on public sidewalks? in and of itself no. but - he was directed by a dispatcher to remain in his vehicle.
was it illegal for mr zimmerman to ignore this instruction? i don't know.
what is really not clear is what happened next. there have been voice analyses coming out of the yin yang, and gg recently posted a good article on the unreliability of several forensic tools based on lack of authentication studies. voice analysis was on that list.



I have heard/read, that Zimmerman, stopped following him as soon as the dispatcher told him to, but that martin then followed him and then attacked and severally injured him. I don't know anything past that, but I really don't think this was a huge racist thing. I have a feeling that if Zimmerman's last name was sanches or castro, this wouldn't have even made the news.
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Posted by magnolia on 06-18-2013 09:14 PM:

it'll be interesting to see what is presented.

i just wonder how they're ever going to get a jury.

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Posted by Large Filipino on 06-18-2013 11:27 PM:

Re: Re: upcoming zimmerman trial

quote:
Originally posted by gundamgarrett
I have heard/read, that Zimmerman, stopped following him as soon as the dispatcher told him to, but that martin then followed him and then attacked and severally injured him. I don't know anything past that, but I really don't think this was a huge racist thing. I have a feeling that if Zimmerman's last name was sanches or castro, this wouldn't have even made the news.


He lied.
I hope the jury pays attention to this.
To have ZERO DNA on each other means there was no scuffle.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/...ed-his-injuries

DNA Report does NOT support Zimmerman's claim that Trayvon Martin caused his injuries

quote:
DNA results and Autopsy results would have to "prove" that Trayvon Martin actually "caused" Zimmerman's injuries in order for for anyone, including a jury, to conclude Zimmerman acted in self defense when he killed an unarmed Trayvon Martin. However, the DNA results and the Autopsy results do not support Zimmerman's claim that Trayvon Martin "caused" injuries to his face or head. Meaning, DNA results and the Autopsy suggest Trayvon Martin is not the "cause" of Zimmerman's injuries. So Zimmerman's alleged self defense claim might not fly with the jury since none of the forensic results suggest Trayvon Martin touched Zimmerman in any way, shape or form.

The Jury will see the DNA report shows that none of Zimmerman's DNA was under Martin's fingernails.
George Zimmerman was damn near bald on the night he followed, search for, then found and killed Trayvon Martin. In order for Trayvon Martin to grab Zimmerman's bald head tight enough to slam his head into the sidewalk over a dozen times, some of Zimmerman's DNA would have gotten underneath Trayvon Martin's fingernails.

The DNA results show none of Zimmerman's DNA under Martin's fingernails:

RESULTS
Exhibit ME2: Fingernail scrapings represented as being from Trayvon Benjamin Martin
“gave chemical indications for the presence of blood”
ME 2A Right hand: “No DNA results foreign to Trayvon Benjamin Martin (ME-3) were
found on Exhibit ME-2A”

ME 2B Left hand: “No DNA results were obtained from Exhibit ME-2B

The Jury will see the DNA report shows that none of Zimmerman's DNA was found on the cuffs/sleeves of Martin's hoodie.
George Zimmerman told detectives (time 34:46 in video after the orange squiggle) that he had "blood all over [his] face and eyes." We know from pictures officer's took of Zimmerman moments after he killed Trayvon that Zimmerman did not really have blood covering his eyes. That said, if Trayvon had been punching Zimmerman in the nose 25 to 30 times, as Zimmerman claims, then some of Zimmerman's blood would be all over the cuff/sleeve of Trayvon Martins hoodie.
Exhibit ME 12 Hoodie represented as being from Trayvon Martin
Stain A:
Partial DNA profile consistent with originating from a male individual and matches the DNA profile from Trayvon Benjamin Martin (ME-3).”

Stain B: (cuff/sleeve regions of both arms)
Failed to give chemical indications for the presence of blood

Right cuff/lower sleeve:
No DNA results foreign to Trayvon Martin were obtained from right cuff/lower sleeve

Left cuff/lower sleeve:
No DNA results foreign to Trayvon Martin were obtained from left cuff/lower sleeve

ME 12 (stain B and general rubbing from cuff/sleeve regions of both arms)
Failed to give chemical indications for the presence of blood

Stain C:
No DNA results were obtained.

The Jury will see the DNA report that states that none of Zimmerman's DNA was found on the right cuff/sleeve of Trayvon's long sleeve shirt and no determination could be made if Zimmerman's DNA was present on the left cuff/sleeve Trayvon wore underneath his hoodie because the sample size was too small to yield sufficient results.
ME 8 Shirt represented as being from Trayvon Martin
Right cuff/lower sleeve:
Failed to give chemical indications for the presence of blood. No DNA results foreign to Trayvon Martin (ME-3) were obtained from Exhibit ME-8 right cuff/lower sleeve”

Left cuff/lower sleeve:
The mixed DNA profile obtained from Exhibit ME-8 left cuff/lower sleeve demonstrated the presence of at least two individuals. Assuming Trayvon Benjamin Martin (ME-3) is a contributor to the mixture, foreign DNA results were obtained. Due to the limited nature of these results, this data is insufficient for inclusion purposes.

No determination can be made regarding the possible contribution of George Michael Zimmerman (JR-2) to the mixed DNA profile obtained from Exhibit ME-8 left cuff/lower sleeve.”

The Jury will see Trayvon Martin's Autopsy Report that describes, in intricate detail, the physical appearance of Trayvon Martin as he appeared after Zimmerman killed him. The Jury will see that the Autopsy report shows Trayvon had "a 1/4" x 1/8" small abrasion on the left fourth finger." The Jury will also see that the Autopsy does not mention any: blood, dirt, defensive wounds or offensive wounds on Trayvon Martin's knuckles, palms, wrists, fingers or thumbs -- which dispels Zimmerman's claim that Trayvon punched him in the nose 25-30 times, covered his nose and mouth while at the same slamming his head into the sidewalk over a dozen times.
The Jury will see Police pictures of George Zimmerman's hands approximately 45 minutes after he killed Trayvon which do not show any defensive wounds on his, dirt or blood on Zimmerman's: knuckles, palms, wrists, thumbs or fingers or fingernails.

The Jury will also see police pictures of the back-side of Zimmerman which does not show any: blood, dirt, mud, or grass stains on the back of Zimmerman's jacket or blue jeans.

In the video below the orange squiggle, at time 33:31, Zimmerman's admitted to Detectives that he pinned Trayvon Martin "face down" in the muddy, wet grass, in an effort to "restrain" the unarmed teenager he just killed.

ZIMMERMAN: I was on top of him, straddling him, he was face down, when he kept hitting me in the face it felt like something was in his hands, so I thought he had a weapon, so I grabbed his hands and pushed them away from his body, and I said, "STOP! Don't move." He was saying something like "ahhhh ahhhhh and cursing" and I said, "STOP, don't move" and then somebody came and had a flashlight and I thought was a cop and I said - oh and I still had my gun in my hand as I was holding his hands apart and I said are you a cop he said "no" but I'll call them. I said, "I don't need you to do that I need you to help me restrain this guy."
Zimmerman admission that he pinned Trayvon Martin face down, holding Trayvon's arms out away from his body could explain: Photographs that show the front-side of Trayvon Martin's pants and hoodie have: dirt, mud, and grass stains on them.
There is no denying that the EMS Report states Zimmerman had "minor bleeding" from wounds. Officer Wagner took pictures with his cell phone before EMS cleaned Zimmerman with Peroxide that show: the very tip of Zimmerman's nose had some blood that dripped down in a narrow band onto his mustache (but no bleeding from nostrils). There is also a picture Wagner took before EMS cleaned Zimmerman that shows Zimmerman with "minor bleeding" (no smeared blood plus blood flowing to the front of Zimmerman's chin) on the back of his head.

That said, the DNA Report and Autopsy Report suggests that Trayvon Martin did not cause any of the injuries to Zimmerman. How did Zimmerman get his injuries? Who knows, but the DNA evidence and Autopsy report suggests Zimmerman did not get his injuries from the hands of Trayvon Martin.

CORRECTION:
Zimmerman admitted to Detectives that when he found Trayvon Martin he immediately took his own Zimmerman took his own right hand and tapped his right front pants pocket and his right back pocket (which was just inches away from his firearm) and said he "went to go for my phone" and then admitted that his phone was not even in his pants. The other day in my Diary I wrote he put his hand in his right-side jacket pocket and that is not correct.
I wanted to make that correction here for anyone who may have read my Diary from yesterday.
ZIMMERMAN'S HANDS:

In this video, at time 30:46, Zimmerman illustrates, through hand motion and words, that while standing in front of Trayvon, Zimmerman took his own right hand and tapped his right front pants pocket and his right back pocket (which was just inches away from his firearm) and said he "went to go for my phone" and then admitted that his phone was not even in his pants pocket.




quote:
At time 38:38 in the video, Zimmerman explains that Trayvon Martin did not pin Zimmerman's arms down and that Zimmerman's arms were free to "defend" himself.

At time 39:53 he admitted he wanted to "maintain close proximity to" Trayvon so he "could tell police" where Martin was. (Nothing about looking for the name of the street he lived on or an address to any random house one block away from where his car was parked.)

I think at this point it is important to remember that while Zimmerman was on the phone with 911 he did not think Travyon was "gone" from the area. In fact, from 911 we know Zimmerman thought Trayvon was still in the area and was hiding from Zimmerman.

DISPATCH: What's your apartment number?
ZIMMERMAN: It's a home, it's 1950, oh crap I don't want to give it all out, I don't know where this kid is

.
At time 41:43 Zimmerman gives an illustration showing how he used both his hands and arms (covering his face) to "defend " himself against Trayvon Martin's punches. Zimmerman also describes how he grabs Trayvon's wrist with his left hand, pinches Trayvon's other hand down with his arm pit, grabs his gun and "aims" his gun at Trayvon with precision enough not to "hit his own left hand" with the hollow point bullet that is about to race through Trayvon Martin's heart.

DETECTIVE: Ok, where were his hands when you went to get the weapon.
ZIMMERMAN: One hand was going toward the gun and ah, he took it off my mouth. I took his hand, ah, he was suffocating me so I was trying to get his hands off my face. So when I felt his hands, ah, he let go of my mouth, so I wasn't trying to do anything again with my right hand so I grabbed my gun and, ah, I don't know if he did it at the same time or what the case was but I got to it first.
DETECTIVE: How did you come to fire upon him in that position cuz you're laying down on your back and did you just bring it out of the holster. Did you just fired it from, almost like from the hip.

ZIMMERMAN: 43:09 [GZ fully extends right arm holding an imaginary gun and at the same time, GZ uses left hand to show he was holding Martin] I think I made sure that it wasn't -- cuz my hand in the way -- I made sure it was past my hand was out of the way. Cuz his hand was still on my face. So I made sure. He was like putting all his weight on my nose and my mouth trying to suffocate me. So he was like creating a crevice with his body and then he like -- when he slid to go for my gun -- that's when it clicked that I had my gun.

DETECTIVE: You went out like this [illustrates holding an imaginary gun by his hip]

ZIMMERMAN: 44:14 [GZ fully extends right arm holding an imaginary gun I think I went and at the same time, GZ uses left hand to show holding Martin] I think I went out far enough where I could make sure that it [the gun] was past my other hand. [GZ keeps right arm extended] and in his general area.

DETECTIVE: There's not really a lot of distance between you and him, so you can't really extend you arm -- you don't have any play

ZIMMERMAN: [Zimmerman fully extends his right arm again holding imaginary gun] I was on him -- I knew I was on him. Correct.

While Zimmerman admits he knew he shot Trayvon in the above quote, earlier in the Video (34:03) Zimmerman claimed he had no idea he actually "shot" Trayvon so he pinned Trayvon face down, pushed his arms apart and yelled, "Don't Move" then told an "onlooker" to "help me restrain this guy."
Afer all that Zimmerman claims he went through, take a close look at pictures of Zimmerman's hands taken about 45 minutes after he killed Trayvon.




(George Zimmerman's hands about 45 minutes after he killed Trayvon Martin look pristine)

Zimmerman's left hand:



quote:
These pictures of Zimmerman's hands were taken about 45 minutes after he killed Trayvon show there no defensive wounds on his hands. There are no defensive marks on his left hand where he grabbed Trayvon's wrist tight enough to immobilize it as he grabbed his gun and aimed it with precision so as not to hit his own left hand. There isn't even any dirt under his fingernails. Zimmerman's hands look almost pristine.

Zimmerman claims he was using both his arms to defend himself against Trayvon in a "life threatening brawl" in the wet, muddy grass, squirming on his back to get his head off of a sidewalk, killed an unarmed minor, flipped that dead unarmed minor onto his belly, straddled him and spread his arms apart with his gun still in your hands, restrain that dead unarmed teenager .... and did not have any defensive wounds on his hand at all and did not even get any dirt under his fingernails -- in fact, Zimmerman's hand look pristine.

ZIMMERMAN's JACKET:
Here are pictures of the back of Zimmerman's jacket taken about 45 minutes after he killed Trayvon Martin. Notice, no dirt, no mud, no scuff marks. Yet he claims he squirmed in the muddy grass with a 150 pound teenager on top of him to get his head off of a sidewalk as that teenager is allegedly punching him in the face 25-30 times.




quote:
(Back of Zimmerman's Jacket 45 minutes after he was alleged on his back in a bloody, muddy scuffle)

TRAYVON MARTIN PANTS (FRONT SIDE)
Remember, Zimmerman admits that he pinned Martin face down in the wet, muddy grass.


ZIMMERMAN: I was on top of him, straddling him, he was face down, when he kept hitting me in the face it felt like something was in his hands, so I thought he had a weapon, so I grabbed his hands and pushed them away from his body, and I said, "STOP! Don't move." He was saying something like "ahhhh ahhhhh and cursing" and I said, "STOP, don't move" and then somebody came and had a flashlight and I thought was a cop and I said - oh and I still had my gun in my hand as I was holding his hands apart and I said are you a cop he said "no" but I'll call them. I said, "I don't need you to do that I need you to help me restrain this guy."
Therefore, since Zimmerman admits he pinned Martin "face down" it is no surprise that Martin's pants have mud and dirt on the front of them.




The front of Martin's pants show dirt and mud from which is consistant with Zimmerman's admitting that he pinned Trayvon face down after he shot and killed Trayvon.
ZIMMERMAN'S PANTS (BACK SIDE)
Zimmerman claims that while he was on his back, he squirmed and squirmed and shimmied on the muddy wet grass to get his head off of the sidewalk but the back of his blue jeans are as "pristine" as his hands




Okay there's more on this article but I'm tired of doing this. Click the link to the article.

If Zimmerman walks remember the LA riots?
Ten fold.
Believe it.
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Posted by Large Filipino on 06-18-2013 11:40 PM:

I'm going to keep going because this is extremely fucked up.


ZIMMERMAN'S INJURIES
EMS Report describes Zimmerman as having "minor bleeding" and does not make a claim that Zimmerman had a broken nose. In fact, to date, no document from any licensed medical doctor has ever diagnosed Zimmerman with a broken nose. Zimmerman told his family Physician Assistant that "EMS told him" he had a broken nose but we see from EMS report that Zimmerman lied to his PA when he told her that.




Only TIP of Zimmerman's nose is bleeding and not his nostrils - which means Zimmerman was not punched in the nose 25-30 times as he claims.



The above picture is a picture Officer Wagner took of Zimmerman's nose before EMS used peroxide to clean his blood. Notice, no blood coming from Zimmerman's nostrils. Blood only coming from tip of Zimmerman's nose.




Sanford Police Department took the above picture about 45 minutes after Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin, you can see two pinholes on the tip of Zimmerman's nose which is exactly the location of the bleeding Officer Wagner's picture shows.



Officer Wagner took the above picture of the back of Zimmerman's head before EMS used peroxide to clean the blood. Notice the streams of blood have a defined path flowing toward the front of Zimmerman's face which is not consistent with bleeding on his back. Also, the defined streams are not consistent with Zimmerman laying on his back, getting his head slammed against a sidewalk over a dozen times while simultaneously "squirming" and "shimmying" on his back to get his head off of the sidewalk.

TRAYVON MARTIN'S DNA & AUTOPSY REPORT:
The DNA report shows that none of Zimmerman's DNA is under Trayvon Martin's fingernails which dispels Zimmerman's claim that Trayvon grabbed his head with a tight enough grip to slam his head in the sidewalk over a dozen times.

DNA report shows none of Zimmerman's DNA on the cuff/sleeve of Trayvon's hoodie or long sleeve shirt which underscores none of Zimmerman's blood was splattering onto Martin's cuff/sleeves during Zimmerman's allegation that Trayvon punched him in the nose 25-30 times.

Autopsy Report does not state that Trayvon had any: blood, dirt, mud, defensive, or offensive wounds on his: hands, knuckles, palms, wrists, fingers or thumbs -- which dispels Zimmerman's claim that Trayvon punched him in the nose 25-30 times, covered his nose and mouth while at the same slamming his head into the sidewalk over a dozen times.

I have no idea how Zimmerman got two small cuts, with "minor bleeding" on the back of his head, nor do I know how Zimmerman got two bleeding pinholes on the tip of his nose. I do not even know "why" Zimmerman "thought" he needed to avoid shooting his own left hand - which was allegedly used to pull Martin's hand off Zimmerman's nose -- when he allegedly pulled his weapon from his right hip, and from his right hip shot and killed Trayvon Martin through the heart.

But I do know that the DNA report and Autopsy Report do not support Zimmerman's claim that Trayvon caused Zimmerman's injuries.

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I want a Trump sex doll.
I would throw it in a Orangutan enclosure
And watch the orgy.


Posted by Large Filipino on 06-18-2013 11:43 PM:

Look at his nose injury. That could be from his gun kicking back at his nose. Not from being punched repeatedly. The blood would be all over Martin's hands. The blood would be imprinted on his face not dripping down.
This mutherfucker shot the kid in cold blood then self inflicted his injuries.

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I want a Trump sex doll.
I would throw it in a Orangutan enclosure
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Posted by Krunk Fu on 06-19-2013 01:50 AM:

Um he was bleeding FROM the nostrils and had injury to the bridge of his nose. The blood is on the tip because he was probably looking down, he was cuffed behind his back so his head would have been in the down position.


Posted by magnolia on 06-19-2013 04:12 AM:

hey, oj simpson walked because his attorneys managed to create reasonable doubt.

the question is, will they be able to find a jury that doesn't already have an opinion?
if any on the jury have reasonable doubt, will s/he hold firm? i ask because lf already brought up rioting and pretty much indicated it would happen if zimmerman wasn't convicted. so would a jury member vote zimmerman guilty even if s/he had a doubt because they were worried about rioting, or even more scary, personal safety? there was already one potential juror who said he didn't want to wear a target on his back.

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Posted by Large Filipino on 06-19-2013 04:39 AM:

The fact that there was no DNA under Martin's fingernails suggest that he didn't grab Zimmerman's head.
That nose injury could have been made from his gun kicking back.
But there is zero evidence it was done by Martin.

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I would throw it in a Orangutan enclosure
And watch the orgy.


Posted by bacidath on 06-19-2013 05:07 AM:

I bet he smacked his head with the gun to make it look like he got hit

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Posted by magnolia on 06-19-2013 05:26 AM:

again, the lawyers only have to come up with reasonable doubt for a couple of the jurors.

what about the second part of that? what should those jurors do if they have reasonable doubt?go along and vote guilty to keep themselves safe and maybe forestall rioting? or be true to what they believe?

often we say in this country that it's better for 99 guilty men to go free than for one innocent man to spend time in jail. i guess i'm wondering if y'all really think that's valid.

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Posted by Rokkr on 06-19-2013 06:20 AM:

Sad to say, but the odds are he'll be acquitted. Main reason being he killed a black guy.

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Posted by bacidath on 06-19-2013 06:38 AM:

sounds about right

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Posted by magnolia on 06-19-2013 07:05 AM:

here are the calls from the neighbors to 911.

neighbor calls

at least two calls reference two people wrestling. one captures screaming in the background. how do you fit that in?

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Posted by bacidath on 06-19-2013 07:21 AM:

to answer that question go back to ... who started it?
was TV standing his ground or was it GZ

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Posted by Mister Freign on 06-19-2013 10:17 AM:

am I a bad person for not giving a fuck about this?

Zim's alleged racism is not a legal matter - only his shooting. It's fishy as shit and I believe he's a racist (because of the idiotic cowardly racist bullshit he himself has spewed) and that he wrongfully killed a kid, but I don't know, and that's why we have juries. I want them to do it right - but I expect that they will not, because most people I encountered in these situations in my own life are just not the considered thinking animals that make sound decisions. Sad but true.

Zim will probably walk; there will be blood.

But come on now: he'd never have shot a white girl under those circumstances - a Theresa Martin would have made it home with her fucking tea and Skittles, let's be real. This "controversy" is bullshit and Florida is a hellish insane Miniature Golf Course of the Damned. I may be moving there, by the way.

I totally agree with Baci - my gut says Zim injured himself to try to weasel out - a typical cowardly mite.


Posted by ignatz mouse on 06-19-2013 04:01 PM:

Martin was a 17-yr-old kid.


Posted by Mister Freign on 06-19-2013 04:06 PM:

I'm not in favor of it; I'm not defending the killing -

killings of 17 yr olds happen constantly - that does concern me - but this spectacle doesn't


Posted by magnolia on 06-19-2013 05:07 PM:

17 years old....

not old enough to vote, but old enough to make major medical decisions on your own (like signing yourself into a mental facilty or getting an abortion)...old enough to give consent to sexual relations...old enough to enter the military...go off to college.

at 17 i left home and was on my own at college. i have had several clients who were raising a couple of their own children at 17.

in some ways still a child but in some ways expected to be an adult. maybe we should be more consistent about our expectations from people that age.

please understand, i am fascinated with the ins and outs of our legal system. i often wonder how results end up one way versus another way, and how people process information. perhaps that's because i've had to testify in a number of child welfare cases but also had the flip experience of being on a jury that was sequestered for a high profile capital murder case.

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Posted by bacidath on 06-19-2013 06:55 PM:

take your pick...

this all could have been avoided if

the kid didn't need his cottonmouth candy

or

dude would have left policing to the police.

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Posted by bacidath on 06-19-2013 07:04 PM:

honestly... with the stand your ground stuff... I believe GZ initiated the confrontation and it is not valid... but thats now how shit works in fl
http://www.tampabay.com/news/public...ding-on/1233133

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Posted by Large Filipino on 06-19-2013 11:35 PM:

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I want a Trump sex doll.
I would throw it in a Orangutan enclosure
And watch the orgy.


Posted by mattdk on 06-20-2013 05:04 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Mister Freign
am I a bad person for not giving a fuck about this?




Nope. The national tv box displays whatever it thinks will get people to watch it


Posted by mattdk on 06-20-2013 07:59 AM:

Oh god I sound kinda like SSimon :\


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