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-- The Automotive Industry (http://asylumnation.com/asylum/showthread.php?threadid=59222)


Posted by Large Filipino on 05-19-2014 01:48 PM:

The Automotive Industry

We are so fucking doomed.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-...old-cars-go-die

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Posted by Large Filipino on 05-19-2014 01:52 PM:

We're fucked because China is about to unleash cars at under 10 grand all over the mutherfucker.
And all because we are so not going to give up these cars at a little above cost.

Another article to ponder at.

http://www.ask.com/question/average...g-cost-of-a-car

quote:
The average manufacturing cost of a car varies depending on the type of car. It does not cost much for a company to manufacture a car. A family car can be manufactured for an average of $1,200. A sports car or luxury vehicle can be manufactured for an average of $2,700. It typically costs less than half the full cost of the car to have it manufactured giving a car company a profit of over 50 percent.
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Posted by Coincidence on 05-19-2014 01:56 PM:

And there was much laughter and rejoicing.

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Posted by Large Filipino on 05-19-2014 01:57 PM:

http://www.thecarconnection.com/new...n-north-america

Wait. That article is old.
Recent article:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...-s-in-2015.html

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Posted by Tuba on 05-20-2014 06:27 AM:

Cost does not include R & D???

China has been making cheap buckets of shit for awhile. Cherry, Great Wall, others too I assume.

Theyre not exactly the same thing though. Modern look on a car with safety standards of 1970. Yes it has airbags but theres more to safety than that.

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Posted by Trenchant_Troll on 05-20-2014 06:35 AM:

I'm not worried about it. If Japan didn't kill the US auto industry China sure as fuck won't. At least not without a sea change in their quality ethic.

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Posted by Trenchant_Troll on 05-20-2014 06:44 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Coincidence
And there was much laughter and rejoicing.


Fucking luddite.
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Posted by Large Filipino on 05-20-2014 02:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Tuba
Cost does not include R & D???

China has been making cheap buckets of shit for awhile. Cherry, Great Wall, others too I assume.

Theyre not exactly the same thing though. Modern look on a car with safety standards of 1970. Yes it has airbags but theres more to safety than that.



China has improved quite a bit.
They essentially use the same exact tooling now.
You would be correct if this was 10 or more years ago.
But not anymore.
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Posted by Large Filipino on 05-20-2014 02:32 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Trenchant_Troll
I'm not worried about it. If Japan didn't kill the US auto industry China sure as fuck won't. At least not without a sea change in their quality ethic.


Japan actually killed Detroit in the 70's doing our oil embargo. Detroit continued to build large American cars when they should have been more focused on building compact cars.
And Detroit has never recovered.
All China needs to do is lower their profit margin even with the high tariffs we would need to add to keep America competitive and say good bye to American manufacturers if they don't do the same. China can do a 40% profit margin and if American manufacturers don't do the same they die.
We have the technology now to just order a car online eliminating the dealer. And what do we do?
We pass laws that protect the dealers.
Testla vs New Jersey for example.
But NJ loses because anyone can go online.
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Posted by Tuba on 05-20-2014 02:58 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Large Filipino
China has improved quite a bit.
They essentially use the same exact tooling now.
You would be correct if this was 10 or more years ago.
But not anymore.


You are wrong. I have seen the recent tests, (last 4yrs) of their cars. They dont achieve the same safety ratings. The few that have improved, pass the on paper tests, but fail the impact tests. Tooling is not the point. R & D is. Beijing Benz might be a slightly different animal, but the rest are still making cars based on 1970s standards (at least the discount makers are, such as the two I quoted, Cherry and Great Wall). However, I have read that even the Beijing Benz, is nothing like a real Benz made for the Euro market.

Here the Cherry failed to get ANCAP5, something even average Joe car makers like Ford can achieve, let alone BMW, Audi or Mercedes.

Ford 2010 to 2012 model http://www.ancap.com.au/crashtestrecord?Id=362

Cherry 2011 on model http://www.ancap.com.au/crashtestrecord?Id=398

The Chinese still have a lot to learn.
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Posted by Coincidence on 05-20-2014 03:21 PM:

And another thing: I can't understood how a car commercial ever influenced a car sale. Basically every time one comes up with their nature-is-out-to-get-you-spiel it's pretty obvious that doom is coming.

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Posted by Large Filipino on 05-20-2014 10:25 PM:

Tuba.
We are now 2014.
Time to cringe.
http://english.people.com.cn/business/8514662.html


They're gunning for us,dude.

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Posted by Large Filipino on 05-20-2014 10:31 PM:

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Posted by Tuba on 05-20-2014 11:22 PM:

Psst, Jetta $16,000
That thing ...wait for it... $17,000. According to the comments in the youtube clip.

No one said the Chinese cant make a decent car. They just generally dont. That one, one, is made by ex SAAB and BMW staff, again according to the comments on the clip. Left to their own devices, the Chinese just dont get the western mentality. If it doesnt need hay, or a push start, its decadent.

Can we say the same for the engine? Drivetrain? Suspension? Handling? Comfort? Economy? Paint?

I did say Beijing Benz (representative of the upscale makers) are a different animal, but they arent cheap either. Cheap is the Cherry and the Great Wall. A bit like Tata (Indian), they buy older patents. Tata use 1970s LandRover patents, Kia used 1990s Rover engine designs, but went and fucked them with floating bores. And Kia are one of the better cheap Asian makers, from an advanced nation.

Is the pictorial the same vehicle? Hard to tell. But its not exactly verified now is it?

Theres 3 versions of Chinese products. Chinese, and only Chinese. Chinese built to western standards, but overseen and QC'd by Chinese. And Chinese overseen and QC'd by westerners. Now the actual quality checker might be Chinese, but he is trained under western supervision, and answers to westerners. And respectively, they get better. Very wealthy Chinese understand the things that matter to westerners, most Chinese do not. If it starts, great. If it has brakes, bonus. They dont drive much at 70 miles per hour. They dont do the whole take the family on a road trip much either.

Sure the are coming for you. Its not like they can easily win though. Cheap shit is cheap shit.

Oh, and you said 10 yrs ago. Those two I showed you, are from 2 yrs ago. You fucking lying Asian fuck.

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Posted by Trenchant_Troll on 05-21-2014 12:34 AM:

You also have to understand that, believe it or not, BECAUSE of the impact Japan had on Detroit and in turn the US, you can expect the US automakers to play the patriot card; and rather successfully in this case I think. China is not our friend. People get that. Personally, I really wish China was our friend, but they are not.

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Posted by Tuba on 05-21-2014 07:56 AM:

Unfortunately I think that might be wishful thinking. I hear US buyers are buying Euro in droves, at least the percentages are growing in favour of better built, better designed, more frugal cars. Id assume Japanese/Korean/Thailand/?Mexico? are up there too.

Detroit sure as fuck hasnt been pro-active in getting its shit together... Out of 2.51 million vehicles sold in the US YTD Apr 2014, 792k were local built, and many of those foreign owned makers. 1.72 million were imported. The figures for the year earlier were much the same %. Unless Im looking at bad stats.

While China has work to do, Detroit really needs to soul search.

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Posted by Coincidence on 05-21-2014 02:39 PM:

Detroit is excelling in apocalyptic dread, though.

Every cloud has a silver lining.

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Posted by Large Filipino on 06-03-2014 07:10 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Trenchant_Troll
You also have to understand that, believe it or not, BECAUSE of the impact Japan had on Detroit and in turn the US, you can expect the US automakers to play the patriot card; and rather successfully in this case I think. China is not our friend. People get that. Personally, I really wish China was our friend, but they are not.


I do agree that Americans will buy American over Chinese as far as cars go.
I just hope that China doesn't drop their prices low enough that buying a New Chinese car may take precedence over a Used GM car subjected to recalls.
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Posted by billgerat on 06-03-2014 07:30 AM:

If American car makers want to sell more cars than the Chinese (or any other country) then they need to raise their standards of quality so none of their products get recalled.

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Posted by Tuba on 06-03-2014 11:52 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by billgerat
If American car makers want to sell more cars than the Chinese (or any other country) then they need to raise their standards of quality so none of their products get recalled.

No, they dont...

Mercedes recalls
https://www.recalls.gov.au/content/...l/itemId/952860

BMW
https://www.recalls.gov.au/content/...l/itemId/952885

Audi
http://www.recalls.gov.au/content/i...l/itemId/952886

They need to make products people want and can use. Americans need to work out what they want. Some common sense would help, but sadly, youre tied down in debates about semi automatics and how draconian it is to want health care for everyone.
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Posted by creepy uncle on 06-03-2014 12:20 PM:

Chinese cars and especially utilities are liquid dogshit.
In my state you can't insure them with ANYONE because they are both dangerous and don't have any resale value whatsoever.
Want new brake pads? Bad luck cunt, they are asbestos and illegal to import.
I met an old Italian plasterer a few months back who bought one and regrets it more than anything fucked he's ever done in his entire life.
He kept continually calling himself a dumb cunt, stupid-a fucken cunt.

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Posted by Tuba on 06-03-2014 01:20 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by creepy uncle
Chinese cars and especially utilities are liquid dogshit.
In my state you can't insure them with ANYONE because they are both dangerous and don't have any resale value whatsoever.
Want new brake pads? Bad luck cunt, they are asbestos and illegal to import.
I met an old Italian plasterer a few months back who bought one and regrets it more than anything fucked he's ever done in his entire life.
He kept continually calling himself a dumb cunt, stupid-a fucken cunt.


You should have told him it could be worse, it could be a FIAT.
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