Nature takes its course, and yes, nature includes man.
I don't suppose you heard the story about the firefighters that died recently. Seems they were up against a forest fire that they couldn't quite put down, and it was beginning to pick up momentum. So they called in for emergency assistance from helicopters (the kind that dump large "buckets" of water), but there was a several hour delay before the choppers were able to show up. It seems those in charge had to debate and eventually gain permission to remove water from the river, because the river contains an endangered trout. In the mean time, the four firefighters were trapped, and died.
I don't want to sound like an ass or anything, especially since I do care about the planet and all. I'm just wondering how this is OUR legacy? Wouldn't OUR mean Humans? So, therefore, wouldn't that mean that we are leaving our legacy by clearing out lands and so forth? Isn't that what we do? And really, how can a legacy disappear unless there is no future to carry it on?
OK, you guys win, I shall never post another subject concerning saving the enviroment, or the animals..its just to depressing...but, I will go on caring and trying, just not here, as its useless, but thanks for listening anyway.......Gazin
Once this college kid came to our door and handed my dad a pamplet and started to tell him about the evils of lumber companies. "Sir, they are ruining the country, they are destroying our natural resources with disregard for anything but profit. "
My dad goes "Son, I happen to work for Georgia Pacific, do you have any idea as to the size of our reforestation program?"
"Do you have any idea how sophisticated our forestry management program is?"
"Thats what I thought"
Although I am concerned about pollution and the fact that native fish are disappearing from the great lakes and many of the remaining ones are unsafe for consumption.
Oh, if you planned on posting anything about endangered forests, don't. There are more trees in the US (and on Earth) than there were 250 years ago.
Damn, G, I"m disappointed in this one. How much did you pay to buy into that?
I admit I do not know the statistics on the number of trees on earth, but if you equate planting 1000 acres with 20,000 mono-species seedlings as an improvement over the diverse stand of 12,000 old growth trees that was just cut down, well, I guess you and I just think differently about things.
The more and more I see how people respond to threads about environmental degradation, the more and more (sadly) confident I become in my predictions made in my Malthus articles.
But then, the ecosystem has a good 100 or so years left in it, so it really isn't any concern of ours now, is it?
quote:Originally posted by flocat I don't want to sound like an ass or anything, especially since I do care about the planet and all. I'm just wondering how this is OUR legacy? Wouldn't OUR mean Humans? So, therefore, wouldn't that mean that we are leaving our legacy by clearing out lands and so forth? Isn't that what we do? And really, how can a legacy disappear unless there is no future to carry it on?
Legacy, a gift by will. something recieved from an ancestor, or a predecessor from the past.
The animals are our legacy.....the past has left and created the situation we are in, the whole lot, including the earth, are our legacies.....glad to hear you care Flocat,
I totally agree with Morgana, Gazin. It's a forum ,debate it, that is what it is here for.
Just keep in mind that tack makes idiotic posts and ignor him, A.D.H.D. was being sincere as he has genetic links to the ass and put your two cents worth in on the rest.
I find that the concern about a lot of the animals becoming extinct should be looked at on a much broader scale than it is. Not even counting the mass extinction of the ddinosaurs, the number of animals that have become extinct on this planet since life formed is an incredible number, thousandss of times the total number of life forms that exist today. Animals are going to come and go. The excelleration of the extinction of some of the species by man is lamentable but how many of them were on the decline anyway?
I do feel that any effort to intellegently slow or stop their demise is fine but one must consider that we are focusing on a very narrow band of the planet's life.
I don't agree with MstrG's post in that I have a good friend here who works with the Forest Service as a fire managerment specialist and those people, in his opinion, died form a bad call by the USFS. That flash had been PREDICTED and they sent those firefighters in there anyway.
As his article stated...
Bosworth also answered questions about whether the Forest Service should even have been tackling the blaze because of its remote location -- a question that has been raised repeatedly since the inferno, which finally was contained July 23.
The fucking USFS is famous for trying to cover up their fuckups and blaming their deaths on any delay in an ineffectual water drop is typical of them.
Those firefighters died as a result of bad fire management, NOT becauise of the Endangered Species Act interfering with their succor.
On one hand the Lumber companies have truly done a bang up job on their reforestation programs but let us keep that in perspective. They are not replanting the forest they are turning a natural forest into a tree farm. The trees they plant are meant to be harvested down the road. they do not replace all the other plant species destroyed in the logging process as they were just in the way in the first place. The companie's efforts to create meadowlands and the work they have don't to restore riprarian habitat is laudable but needs to be done on a larger scale IMO.
IMO, discussion of gazin's topic inevitably leads to consideration of the merit/morality/legality of human population control.
Additionally, whether or not MstrG's particular example is ultimately accurate, it serves to underscore some important perceptions shared by an increasing number of people. These include:
1) Most people care and, within reason at least, will go to great lengths to help worthy causes;
2) By the same token, many people are growing increasingly weary of being hammered by countless causes;
3) People are becoming more and more cynical toward the media, advocates and special interest groups, as well, i.e., who and what to believe?
To me, the key here is analagous to the difference between a great lawyer and the rest of the pack. A great lawyer persuades. Thus, especially in the context of gazin's topic and the issues that flow forth, what good is being right if one fails to persuade? Amen.
quote:Originally posted by morgana gazin, don't get all whiny and threaten to take your thread/toys home. most of the replies here have been polite, just not what you expected. it happens.
i don't agree with you. let's debate about it. that's what a forum is about.
Debate? Debate what? Whether mankind should kill off all the cool animals? I dont know how to debate this, I was under the assumption that most people cared about this problem, I find thats not the case with alot of the people here, so I was just going to stop posting these types of threads, maybe sow my few seeds in a better direction. You guys tell me to debate this, but I dont get that, maybe I can write a piece that might have effect,
I'm considering a trip over the see the reserves in Kenya and Tanzania, and do the whole Sernegeti area...Might never come back..just think, I could set up one of those live Africa cams, cool....
quote:Originally posted by Joeycat Why run off to Africa when there are so many problems in your own back yard?
Africa is my backyard, its just over the giant pond over there........and, someones got to do it..so why not me? Others can save who and what they want and I shall hopefully help the animals, we'll see...right now its just a dream, though it could happen, I can afford it down the road...when the nipper leaves home....
if you didn't want to debate the subject, and face opposing viewpoints, why even post this on a forum?
Whether mankind should kill off all the cool animals? I dont know how to debate this,
you're taking this way too personally. again, if you don't want to hear what people REALLY have to say, how are you ever going to "fix" the problem? i mean, if you're right, and i'm wrong, and you don't even want to take the time to intelligently explain to me why i'm wrong, how is that going to change my viewpoint?
I was under the assumption that most people cared about this problem, I find thats not the case with alot of the people here, so I was just going to stop posting these types of threads, maybe sow my few seeds in a better direction.
again, how do you expect to change anyone's mind if you run away at the first sign of opposition?