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billgerat
Hope-nosis

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: ObamaNation
Posts: 26434
Legislating religion

HRES 153 IH


108th CONGRESS

1st Session

H. RES. 153
Recognizing the public need for fasting and prayer in order to secure the blessings and protection of Providence for the people of the United States and our Armed Forces during the conflict in Iraq and under the threat of terrorism at home.


IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

March 20, 2003
Mr. AKIN (for himself, Mr. GOODE, Mr. BARTLETT of Maryland, Mr. JONES of North Carolina, Mr. KING of Iowa, Mr. HAYES, Mrs. JO ANN DAVIS of Virginia, Mr. BEAUPREZ, Ms. CORRINE BROWN of Florida, Mr. MANZULLO, Mr. ADERHOLT, Mr. TIAHRT, Mr. PITTS, Mr. RYUN of Kansas, Mrs. MYRICK, Mr. WELDON of Florida, Mr. BISHOP of Utah, Mr. BARRETT of South Carolina, Mr. MILLER of Florida, Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN, Mr. GINGREY, Mr. TERRY, and Mr. SOUDER) submitted the following resolution; which was referred to the Committee on Government Reform



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


RESOLUTION
Recognizing the public need for fasting and prayer in order to secure the blessings and protection of Providence for the people of the United States and our Armed Forces during the conflict in Iraq and under the threat of terrorism at home.

Whereas the United States is currently engaged in a war on terrorism in response to the attacks of September 11, 2001;

Whereas the Armed Forces of the United States are currently engaged in a campaign to disarm the regime of Saddam Hussein and liberate the people of Iraq;

Whereas, on June 1, 1774, the Virginia House of Burgesses called for a day of fasting and prayer as an expression of solidarity with the people of Boston who were under siege by the enemy;

Whereas, on March 16, 1776, the Continental Congress, recognizing that the `Liberties of America are imminently endangered' and the need `to acknowledge the overruling Providence of God', called for a day of `Humiliation, Fasting and Prayer';

Whereas, on June 28, 1787, during the debate of the Constitutional Convention, Benjamin Franklin, convinced of God's intimate involvement in human affairs, implored the Congress to seek the assistance of Heaven in all its dealings;

Whereas, on March 30, 1863, in the midst of the Civil War, Abraham Lincoln, at the bequest of the Senate, and himself recognizing the need of the Nation to humble itself before God in repentance for its national sins, proclaimed a day of fasting, prayer and humiliation;

Whereas all of the various faiths of the people of the United States have recognized, in our religious traditions, the need for fasting and humble supplication before Providence;

Whereas humility, fasting, and prayer in times of danger have long been rooted in our essential national convictions and have been a means of producing unity and solidarity among all the diverse people of this Nation as well as procuring the enduring grace and benevolence of God;

Whereas, through prayer, fasting, and self-reflection, we may better recognize our own faults and shortcomings and submit to the wisdom and love of God in order that we may have guidance and strength in those daily actions and decisions we must take; and

Whereas dangers and threats to our Nation persist and, in this time of peril, it is appropriate that the people of the United States, leaders and citizens alike, seek guidance, strength, and resolve through prayer and fasting: Now, therefore, be it


Resolved, That it is the sense of the House of Representatives that the President should issue a proclamation--

(1) designating a day for humility, prayer, and fasting for all people of the United States; and

(2) calling on all people of the United States--

(A) to observe the day as a time of prayer and fasting;

(B) to seek guidance from God to achieve a greater understanding of our own failings and to learn how we can do better in our everyday activities; and

(C) to gain resolve in meeting the challenges that confront our Nation.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------Hey, prayers I can understand. But fasting? Should we sacrifice some lambs too?

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Old Post 03-28-2003 07:15 AM
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mmmtravis
stealthy ninja

Registered: May 2002
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wtf? this is crazy. link please.

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Old Post 03-28-2003 07:24 AM
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billgerat
Hope-nosis

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: ObamaNation
Posts: 26434

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:hres153:

Via http://metafilter.com

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Old Post 03-28-2003 07:48 AM
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Lu
Soul Amputated

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: US
Posts: 3580

crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy

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Old Post 03-28-2003 07:58 AM
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A.D.H.D
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

Registered: Jan 2001
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I think it's a great idea.

Great as in really fucking dumb.

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Old Post 03-28-2003 08:08 AM
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mmmtravis
stealthy ninja

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what Lu said.

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Old Post 03-28-2003 08:18 AM
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billgerat
Hope-nosis

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: ObamaNation
Posts: 26434

I need some help here. It's too late right now for me to e-mail all the listed Representatives on the H. Res. 153 list, but I have e-mailed a few. I need some dedicated few to send the following to each of them:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: H. Res. 153

Whereas the aforesigned members of our SECULAR government deem it to be of good use of their limited time and our limited funds to write such UNBELIEVABLE nonsense, and spend taxpayer money to document, support, and consider such worthless crap as an actual bill before congress;

Whereas these afore-defined fools may falsely believe themselves in possession of good intent and good will;

And whereas we the people, the voting public recognize that we have elected said idiots to our congress: Now therefore be it

Resolved That it is the sense of good and decent and intelligent citizens that we should loudly decry this attempted legislation as pandering, wasteful, and completely useless - and furthermore declare the aforementioned members of congress to be complete Horse's Asses.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Good luck, people. Let me tell you, finding all their e-mail addresses is a long process.

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Old Post 03-28-2003 08:24 AM
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SocialParasite
wallet.dat is where it at

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: fuck you daaaaaaaaad
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Hehehehehehehehe.

http://legis.state.nm.us/session03....ype=&number=766

While we're on wasted tax dollars for pathetic legislation.

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Old Post 03-28-2003 08:45 AM
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geaeslore
fallen mathlete

Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2451

If it means a free day off of work so i can "fast and pray" on the disc golf course then I'm all for it

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Old Post 03-28-2003 06:31 PM
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Mordecai
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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Denver
Posts: 23169

If I got paid holidays, I'd agree.

-m

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Old Post 03-28-2003 10:31 PM
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scatmonkey
burnin' ring of fiber

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: 51N3, 114W3
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Crazy is one word to use. Unconstitutional is another. Arsheficken (sp?) is another. But that's German. All good words all round.

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Old Post 03-28-2003 10:36 PM
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J E B Stuart
Administrator

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Beyond Mason-Dixon Line
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Just looks like a grandstand play in hopes of pandering to certain of their constituents. Frankly, my disdain for such has little, if anything, to do with concerns regarding Constitutional muster. Rather, I don't need my legislature dictating if and when I oughtta pray, fast, etc. My religious convictions are entirely a personal matter.

Amen.

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" Future years will never know the seething hell and the black infernal background of countless minor scenes and interiors, (not the official surface courteousness of the Generals, not the few great battles) of the Secession war; and it is best they should not�the real war will never get in the books." ~ Walt Whitman

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Old Post 03-28-2003 10:41 PM
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J E B Stuart
Administrator

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Legislation such as this is also something political opponents may try to break off in the asses of any who dare vote against it.

Tricky, tricky.

Amen.

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" Future years will never know the seething hell and the black infernal background of countless minor scenes and interiors, (not the official surface courteousness of the Generals, not the few great battles) of the Secession war; and it is best they should not�the real war will never get in the books." ~ Walt Whitman

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Old Post 03-28-2003 10:44 PM
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oxsan
Keeper of the Keys

Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Rio de los Brazos de Dios
Posts: 3890

JEB, might I suggest that this new resolution would mean giving up Dickel for a whole day and ther sentiment might turn out to be catchin' and then someone might decide that given up Dickel for a whole year would be more appealin to the eye of the Lord. Just think what this could lead to.

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Old Post 03-29-2003 12:07 AM
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nymbus
incognito

Registered: Aug 2000
Location:
Posts: 3030

quote:
Originally posted by oxsan
Just think what this could lead to.
Nothin good, I'm sure of it.

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Old Post 03-29-2003 12:09 AM
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CHiPsJr
Ginger-headed Troll

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Kansas City
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Those of you who are all outraged by this: do you believe that designating Thanksgiving as a federal holiday is also unconstitutional?

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Old Post 03-29-2003 12:11 AM
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Mordecai
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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Denver
Posts: 23169

The only holiday I think of as legitimate, is independance day, as it has relevance to every american, though for the natives, it might be seen as a day of mourning, except that I don't think remaining a brit colony would have stopped expansion.

-m

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Old Post 03-29-2003 12:16 AM
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oxsan
Keeper of the Keys

Registered: Nov 2001
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I don't think that either this or Thanksgiving is unconstitutional-----I just think it is unwise. This is not in any sense a law. It is a resolution citing the "sense of Congress and the President". They can pass a resolution to the effect that they urge everyone in the US to stick a feather in their ass if they wish---but that wouldn't be wise either---but it wouldn't be unconstitutional.

We have days and weeks now for all sorts of silly things and movements.

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Old Post 03-29-2003 12:19 AM
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oxsan
Keeper of the Keys

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Mord:
New Years Day has relevance to everyone in the US
Memorial Day has relevance to everyone in the US
President's Day has relevance to everyonje in the US.
Those are all national holidays.

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oxsan


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Old Post 03-29-2003 12:48 AM
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SocialParasite
wallet.dat is where it at

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: fuck you daaaaaaaaad
Posts: 24496

quote:
Originally posted by oxsan
Mord:
New Years Day has relevance to everyone in the US
Memorial Day has relevance to everyone in the US
President's Day has relevance to everyonje in the US.
Those are all national holidays.



New Years: No relevance.
Memorial Day: Yes.
President's Day: None at all.

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Old Post 03-29-2003 01:22 AM
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billgerat
Hope-nosis

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: ObamaNation
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Oxsan is correct in that this is only a resolution. I did misname this thread unintentionally, since no law is passed here, nothing legislated. However I do find it slightly repugnant that the authors of the resolution call for prayer and fasting. While it carries no legal, binding force, even if the president calls for it, and therefore violates no constitutional or legal prohibitions about the joining of church and state, but it creeps right up to the edge of that because it is an official resolution passed in the House by elected representatives in a constitutionally governed body.

Prayer is a time honored and completely legal rite that is performed in congress, and the constitution itself mentions God (and by extention religion) in several places. Our government puts "In God We Trust" upon our monies, and that does not violate any proscriptions about the separation of church and state; it merely affirms that our Forefathers believed in the existence of a Supreme Deity. What the constitution prohibits is the government recognizing any one particular type of belief in God.

Prayer is a universally common rite of many types of religions and their various versions, primarily Christianity and Muslim religions. To have lawmakers in a resolution to urge people to pray, as long as they do not specify in a manner that would be peculiar to one type of religious belief, is entirely legal and proper. What got me though was the call for fasting along with prayer. While fasting is a rite of many versions of Christianity, not all sects practice or include it as a rite in their version of worship like prayer is. By calling for fasting in this resolution they are promoting a form of worship that not all religions recognize, and therefore they are advocating people to worship according to a particular type(s) of religion, which amounts to promoting some religions over others. That is a violation of the spirit of the separation of church and state.

Add to it that the majority of the resolution sponsors are Republicans, who lately have been aligning themselves with the Christian conservative right wing. It had been a noted tatic of this wing to interject their beliefs into official government buisness whenever they can, believing in the moral superiority of their belief over others who believe differently. To me, this resolution smacks of a group of lawmakers trying to push their religious beliefs upon others under the guise of constitutionally conducted buisness. That is what I find wrong with this resolution.

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Old Post 03-29-2003 01:27 AM
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oxsan
Keeper of the Keys

Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Rio de los Brazos de Dios
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quote:
And the constitution itself mentions God and by extension religion


Bilgerat, how about posting the Article number of that place where you saw "God" and by extension religion in our Constitution. I'm having a little trouble finding it. I would appreciate it.

SP I'm surprised that you do not mark the passage of the years as others do and is it that you do not favor any of our past presidents or feel that none of them did anything to affect your life?

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Old Post 03-29-2003 03:03 AM
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Mugtoe
Scarred for Life

Registered: Oct 2001
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It's because he works fast food and sees all those other people having fun on those days.

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Old Post 03-29-2003 03:35 AM
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CHiPsJr
Ginger-headed Troll

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7511

quote:
Originally posted by oxsan
Bilgerat, how about posting the Article number of that place where you saw "God" and by extension religion in our Constitution. I'm having a little trouble finding it. I would appreciate it.


Perhaps he means the Declaration of Independence?

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Old Post 03-29-2003 03:48 AM
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oxsan
Keeper of the Keys

Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Rio de los Brazos de Dios
Posts: 3890

Spoil sport---he said Constitution.

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