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BROKEN_LADDER
A DINGO ATE MY ZOGBY

Registered: Mar 2005
Location: SEATTLE
Posts: 1931
You don't need to show I.D. to fly

Want to Fly? Papers, Please.

On July 4, 2002, John Gilmore went to Oakland International Airport. He had a ticket in his own name with Southwest Airlines to Baltimore-Washington International Airport. The purpose of his trip was to petition the government for redress of grievances – specifically, the requirement for airline travelers to provide identification.

John politely refused to show his ID and was not allowed to fly.

John then went to San Francisco International Airport and attempted to fly to Washington, DC on United Airlines. There he was informed that if he was not willing to show ID he could fly, but only if he submitted to a far more intrusive search than what every passenger goes through at the security checkpoint.

He politely declined the search and again was not allowed to fly.

Showing ID. Intensive searches. What's going on here?
Sorry, Sir... that law's a secret.

That's what John Gilmore wanted to know. At San Francisco's airport, just like the rest of the country's airports, there was a sign that began "A Notice From the Federal Aviation Administration" and includes the sentence "passengers must present identification upon initial check-in.

John worked his way up the bureaucratic chain and was eventually told by United Airlines that there were security directives that mandated the showing of ID, but that he couldn't see them. These secret directives, issued by the Transportation Security Administration, are revised as often as weekly, and are transmitted orally rather than in writing. To make things even more confusing, these orally transmitted secret rules change depending on the airport.

John Gilmore left the airport and has not attempted to fly in the United States since that day.

He did, however file a lawsuit, and it's now up to the Supreme Court to get to the bottom of this.
The Plot Thickens.

Since John filed his suit, the public has found out several things. First, the 9th Circuit has seen the Secret Law on ID at airports and, according to them, one can either choose to show ID or 'volunteer' for additional screening. Many people have since chosen 'secondary screening' at airports around the country and successfully flown without showing their papers, most famously a member of the Department of Homeland Security's Privacy Advisory Committee.

Others have tried to do the same and have been denied the right to fly. Signs at airport across the country continue to state that ID is required in order to fly, and TSA's website makes the same misleading claim. A member of the flying public can never be sure as to which policy will be enforced: the law as stated by the 9th Circuit or the law as it (apparently falsely) reads on airport signs and government websites.

Until Americans have the ability to know the contents of the laws being applied to them, our Republic is in danger.

What are the constitutional issues involved?

LINK

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Old Post 08-10-2006 10:16 PM
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Mugtoe
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Registered: Oct 2001
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I don't think anyone prevented him from making the trip on foot.

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Old Post 08-10-2006 10:21 PM
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Paint CHiPs
Smartest Man in the World

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Location Location
Posts: 26816

You don't need to show the GOVERNMENT ID to fly; whether or not airlines choose to deny you service based on that is another matter.

Of course, that's presupposing that airlines are private corporations, a distinction that's more than a little problematic these days.

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Old Post 08-10-2006 10:26 PM
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ryseone
your death could be sweet

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: in complete and total self inflicted chaos
Posts: 190

first off these airlines are private corperations and can choose how they want to regulate how they allow passengers to fly its there perogative just like they can tell you what you can and can not bring on said flights. they can also limit you on how much you can carry. i dont see the issue they are selling a convienent method of travel under certain terms if you dont agree to it then dont fucking fly. the goverment helps to regulate for the airlines saftey as well as the paitrons. no one was twisting his arm or calling him a terrorist they just said if you dont want to play by our rules then you dont have to play. when you get a job the company asks for your social security card. they wont make you but they also have the option to not hire you. but i bet the man had no problems with complying with that company policey. they arent going to call you an illigal if you chose not to. they just wont hire you. where is the problem all they are saying is to follow the rules do you want complete and total anarchey. because i see that working just so much fucking better

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Old Post 08-10-2006 10:28 PM
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Trenchant_Troll
ad hominid

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: USA
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I'd have had security shoot the guy just for being a pain in the ass.

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Old Post 08-10-2006 10:31 PM
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ryseone
your death could be sweet

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: in complete and total self inflicted chaos
Posts: 190

well said personaly thats to easy i would sway for the body cavity search

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Old Post 08-10-2006 10:32 PM
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BROKEN_LADDER
A DINGO ATE MY ZOGBY

Registered: Mar 2005
Location: SEATTLE
Posts: 1931

quote:
Originally posted by Mugtoe
I don't think anyone prevented him from making the trip on foot.


yeah, what up wit' dat?! you gotta have i.d. to fly, but not to walk? walking gives you more time to kill, as well as more access to potential victims. think about how many people you could kill walking cross country, and murdering some random family or elderly couple in a sleepy midwest town each day.

or check this...fucking put fluoride in their water. that'll fuck their shit up.

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Old Post 08-10-2006 10:39 PM
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Paint CHiPs
Smartest Man in the World

Registered: Jul 2000
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Posts: 26816

quote:
Originally posted by ryseone
first off these airlines are private corperations and can choose how they want to regulate how they allow passengers to fly its there perogative just like they can tell you what you can and can not bring on said flights. they can also limit you on how much you can carry. i dont see the issue they are selling a convienent method of travel under certain terms if you dont agree to it then dont fucking fly. the goverment helps to regulate for the airlines saftey as well as the paitrons. no one was twisting his arm or calling him a terrorist they just said if you dont want to play by our rules then you dont have to play. when you get a job the company asks for your social security card. they wont make you but they also have the option to not hire you. but i bet the man had no problems with complying with that company policey. they arent going to call you an illigal if you chose not to. they just wont hire you. where is the problem all they are saying is to follow the rules do you want complete and total anarchey. because i see that working just so much fucking better


It is worth noting though that airlines aren't strictly speaking private companies anymore, or at least that premise is somewhat debatable. They're subsidized by taxpayer dollars to such a ridiculous degree that they might as well be the postal service at this point (in more ways than one). You're pumping your money into the airlines whether you fly or not. So in that sense, we don't really have a choice as to whether or not we'll be their customers--on many levels we already are whether we like it or not, and it's not a private exchange, or even a voluntary one.

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Old Post 08-10-2006 10:41 PM
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Trenchant_Troll
ad hominid

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 44684

I think that anyone who does anything to slow down the ticket or bggabe check line(s) should be beaten to an unrecognizable pulp by other travelers with impunity-- then shot by security for being a pain in the ass. Air travel would be so much more pleasant that way I think.

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Old Post 08-10-2006 10:44 PM
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Trenchant_Troll
ad hominid

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 44684

I can't tell you how many times I have stood in the self-check-in line at Newark, e-ticket in hand and an array of "self-check-in" terminals standing there vacant as the glorified protozoa in line ahead of me stand there like brain-damaged orangutans waiting for an attendant to beckon them to a SELF-check-in terminal.
I wait politely for about, oh, 55 seconds, then I ask the people at the front of the line if they are self checking their bags or whether they need an attendant. I then query the folks in line as to if they understand the concept of self. Pretty soon the line is moving right along.

I should get paid by that airport.

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Old Post 08-10-2006 10:52 PM
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