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squee
the amen break

Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 4879
Justifying Firefox

I have a customer who is building a brand-new enterprise network, and some of their execs want to use Firefox in place of IE. Only problem is, the execs who actually make the decision are not particularly impressed with Firefox.

They asked me to write up a justification statement, based upon the usability and security of Firefox: something along the lines of "It has these 100 features that IE7 lacks."

When we had this discussion, I said to them, well, Firefox has this Live Bookmarks feature that makes it easy to keep track of the fifty or so daily-read websites I follow. Their response is "Why can't you just go to each site?" They are the kind of people who visit 3 sites per day--they wouldn't use most of the features, so I'm having a hard time making a compelling case for FF like the customer asked.

Any ideas?

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Old Post 01-13-2008 12:35 AM
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skalie
Locksmith of Lurve

Registered: Sep 2001
Location: World Citizen
Posts: 18909

What the fuck is a .....

quote:

brand-new enterprise network




... and why should it matter what browser is usd to access it ?

When I was doing web development one of my bosses just couldn't understand why I made websites that worked in Firefox but broke when viewed in IE, when IE held 80 percent of the market. ( I'd forget to debug them sometimes for IE )

My answer was, if it works in Firefox it works everywhere, except for IE that is, web standards and all that.

He never got it.

Tell your "brand-new enterprise network" makers that if you embrace Firefox that it will eventually make it easier to adapt that network to the new generation of media players, or other such bullshit.

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Old Post 01-13-2008 01:00 AM
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Hawley Griffin
.308 winchester

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: AMERICA
Posts: 19903

firefox is the superior browser, however you are unable to explain why

just give it up and tell them to use IE

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Old Post 01-13-2008 01:07 AM
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Hawley Griffin
.308 winchester

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: AMERICA
Posts: 19903

you could explain about how FF is more secure, but you know it as well as i that no one in an executive position understands or gives a shit about security

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"too many people have opinions on things they know nothting about. and the more ignorant they are, the more opinions they have."
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Old Post 01-13-2008 01:13 AM
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SocialParasite
wallet.dat is where it at

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: fuck you daaaaaaaaad
Posts: 24496

Go find and install a Hello Kitty Firefox theme and then ask them if IE can do that.

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Old Post 01-13-2008 01:26 AM
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Trenchant_Troll
ad hominid

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 44520

I would like god to at some point justify Squee. Is that too much to ask?

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Old Post 01-13-2008 06:26 AM
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Thimbles worth of opinion
Symetrically challenged

Registered: Aug 2000
Location:
Posts: 12474

Because IE forces you to upgrade the operating systems on your IT infrastructure if you want to have the latest supported IE version, with all the latest features and security bug fixes.

The latest version of, say, Sea Monkey can run on anything, including windows 98. Hell, it will run on OS/2.
http://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/

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Old Post 01-13-2008 02:34 PM
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Hawley Griffin
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Registered: Feb 2004
Location: AMERICA
Posts: 19903

quote:
Originally posted by Thimbles worth of opinion
Because IE forces you to upgrade the operating systems on your IT infrastructure if you want to have the latest supported IE version, with all the latest features and security bug fixes.

latest features no one uses and security fixes that no one cares about or understands

try again

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Old Post 01-13-2008 02:54 PM
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Coincidence
Counterfeit

Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Sun
Posts: 33004

Here's a page that sounds very useful but turns out to be totally worthless. But I read it and now you must as well: http://www.bbspot.com/news/2005/01/...t_explorer.html

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Old Post 01-13-2008 02:57 PM
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dogcow
brucoš

Registered: Apr 2005
Location: europa
Posts: 11486

i don't see the dilemma, they can use both as they like.

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Old Post 01-13-2008 03:13 PM
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Smug Git
Arrogance Personified

Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Hilbert Space
Posts: 36297

Multi-platform is perhaps most helpful to me, but I guess not to your clients.

In practice, they may be better off with IE, to be honest. As for TWOO's point about upgrades, presumably your clients are going to patch and upgrade their windows boxes regularly anyhow. Also, if you can't provide them with reasons that are compelling for their planned usage, I wouldn't push it religiously, because if anything goes wrong with FF in their system (there are some ASP.NET features that work with IE7 and not FF, I think, for example; are they planning any intranet stuff based on those?), you'll be the one associated with it and they won't really know why they're using it except they'll remember that you pushed them into it.

The big issue has to be the security one, but it seems to me that you can run a network with IE7 as the default browser and do it securely (not my area of expertise, but it appears that people I know manage that). Obviously, FF has better standards compliance as a rule, but lots of people write their sites, regardless, to work with IE (and as a result they may not work so well with FF) anyhow, because of the relative numbers of those browsers being used.

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Old Post 01-13-2008 03:22 PM
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XiXo
Vote XiXo in 2020

Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Local Group, Virgo Cluster
Posts: 1316

Our hospital uses a huge network and intranet sysetm built around IE. It works just fine for them and all their censorship.

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Old Post 01-14-2008 02:48 PM
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Large Filipino
Fuck me hard in my arse.

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: in colorado somewhere!
Posts: 53109

Tell them all to fuck off and just walk away.


...here's what you do.

Now are they set on using firefox? Or are they looking for a reccomendation?

These guys are total idiots,no?

Make it a game.

Have 4 identical computers on the table....laptops.
Have IE in one,Safari,Opera,Firefox in the other ones.
Now have them find an identical website whatever that may be..the company website and see which computer pops up first.

Do this to a few web sites. Try to get something from China see who hits first.

Go to youtube and see which one loads the video faster.

Then these idiots can make their own goddamm minds.

Your welcome.

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Last edited by Large Filipino on 02-18-2008 at 11:58 PM

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Old Post 02-18-2008 11:53 PM
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Dacarlo
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Registered: Oct 2000
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This is the shiznit: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/5579

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Old Post 04-02-2008 12:07 AM
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Dacarlo
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http://noscript.net/
http://www.downloadhelper.net/
http://www.pdfdownload.org/
http://flashblock.mozdev.org/
http://downloadstatusbar.mozdev.org/
http://www.downthemall.net/
http://minimizetotray.mozdev.org/
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1122

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Old Post 04-02-2008 12:13 AM
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skalie
Locksmith of Lurve

Registered: Sep 2001
Location: World Citizen
Posts: 18909

Dac turned into a spambot ?

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Old Post 04-02-2008 08:30 AM
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dogcow
brucoš

Registered: Apr 2005
Location: europa
Posts: 11486

adblock plus is broken with the newest nightly builds

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Old Post 04-02-2008 09:47 AM
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macker
Holy Me-el

Registered: Nov 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 5237

You might be able to fix it by checking for updates manually. I found it applied a "compatibility update" which got it work again, however that's on a nightly that's about a week old now.

I do like the new little update dialog that shows which extensions will be broken when you update.

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Old Post 04-02-2008 10:47 AM
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dogcow
brucoš

Registered: Apr 2005
Location: europa
Posts: 11486

yes, that little dialog is completely awesome. could you tell me which build you're using so i can revert to it?

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Old Post 04-02-2008 03:44 PM
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macker
Holy Me-el

Registered: Nov 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 5237

I'll look when I get home, although another possible way around it is to go to about :config, right click and add a new boolean value called "extensions.checkCompatibility", without quotes, and set it to false. Restart FF/Minefield.

Seems to let ABP work fine, although if you've got any other extensions sitting around you might want to disable them first.

The trick works with todays nightly and ABP 0.7.5.3.

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Old Post 04-02-2008 04:10 PM
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macker
Holy Me-el

Registered: Nov 2000
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Posts: 5237

quote:
Originally posted by macker
I'll look when I get home


2008032405 according to the about screen.

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Old Post 04-02-2008 08:18 PM
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Dacarlo
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quote:
Originally posted by skalie
Dac turned into a spambot ?


Sorry. I was in a rush at the time and didnt explain :P

Those are pretty much all the addons I use and they're all imho pretty good reasons to have FF.

Anyone else care to point out awesome addons?

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Old Post 04-03-2008 04:51 AM
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skalie
Locksmith of Lurve

Registered: Sep 2001
Location: World Citizen
Posts: 18909

Don't know if you linked to it but the web development add-on is a must have, if you do, er, web development.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/60

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Old Post 04-03-2008 06:53 AM
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dogcow
brucoš

Registered: Apr 2005
Location: europa
Posts: 11486

thanks, macker, that worked.

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Old Post 04-03-2008 08:16 AM
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squee
the amen break

Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 4879

The addons are turning out to be a turnoff for the customer because of the rate at which they update.

Not that that's an issue. They have a good patch management solution in place, they can roll back changes if they don't like them, etc.

The problem is they have conflated this nervousness about FOSS, which basically comes from their bewilderment with the very idea that people would do this shit for free, into all sorts of "legitimate" objections.

My favorite is that "Well, if anyone can see the code, then anyone can make an exploit against it." "Ok, but that also means holes are patched quicker. Look at the vulnerability window." "Uh...well...but..."

So they have basically said something to the effect of "These add-ons update too rapidly, we can't keep up with the changes." Keep up with what? It makes no sense and this is why I don't think I can convince them to use anything FOSS.

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Old Post 04-06-2008 08:48 PM
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