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Mordecai
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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Denver
Posts: 23169
Newspaper death

http://www.shirky.com/weblog/2009/0...he-unthinkable/

"The problem newspapers face isnít that they didnít see the internet coming. They not only saw it miles off, they figured out early on that they needed a plan to deal with it, and during the early 90s they came up with not just one plan but several. One was to partner with companies like America Online, a fast-growing subscription service that was less chaotic than the open internet. Another plan was to educate the public about the behaviors required of them by copyright law. New payment models such as micropayments were proposed. Alternatively, they could pursue the profit margins enjoyed by radio and TV, if they became purely ad-supported. Still another plan was to convince tech firms to make their hardware and software less capable of sharing, or to partner with the businesses running data networks to achieve the same goal. Then there was the nuclear option: sue copyright infringers directly, making an example of them.

As these ideas were articulated, there was intense debate about the merits of various scenarios. Would DRM or walled gardens work better? Shouldnít we try a carrot-and-stick approach, with education and prosecution? And so on. In all this conversation, there was one scenario that was widely regarded as unthinkable, a scenario that didnít get much discussion in the nationís newsrooms, for the obvious reason.

The unthinkable scenario unfolded something like this: The ability to share content wouldnít shrink, it would grow. Walled gardens would prove unpopular. Digital advertising would reduce inefficiencies, and therefore profits. Dislike of micropayments would prevent widespread use. People would resist being educated to act against their own desires. Old habits of advertisers and readers would not transfer online. Even ferocious litigation would be inadequate to constrain massive, sustained law-breaking. (Prohibition redux.) Hardware and software vendors would not regard copyright holders as allies, nor would they regard customers as enemies. DRMís requirement that the attacker be allowed to decode the content would be an insuperable flaw. And, per Thompson, suing people who love something so much they want to share it would piss them off.

..."


Just some reading kids.

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Old Post 03-21-2009 04:54 AM
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Coincidence
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Meanwhile every public place is being swamped in useless free newspapers.

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Old Post 03-21-2009 12:37 PM
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Brett
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I think it's pretty fitting that the only ones really mourning the death of the Newspaper are the ones working in the industry.

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Old Post 03-22-2009 04:14 PM
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Coincidence
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We might be mourning it indirectly if it means less qualified watchdogs in society.

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Old Post 03-22-2009 04:30 PM
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Brett
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I admit that Newspapers do carry more clout than Some Guy's Blog, but I think the idea that all of a sudden no news will every eek out after the last newspaper is printed is laughable and precisely why few are mourning the loss of the newspaper.

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Old Post 03-22-2009 05:01 PM
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Coincidence
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Well, it's not all gone yet. But if they go, mourning is required - good newspapers are one of society's greater things and should be supported by *gasp* tax dollars when in trouble.

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Old Post 03-22-2009 09:18 PM
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Mordecai
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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Denver
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quote:
Originally posted by Brett
I think it's pretty fitting that the only ones really mourning the death of the Newspaper are the ones working in the industry.


Heh, when the Rocky went down here, the television people were near tears over it. Perhaps they see their own future?

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Old Post 03-23-2009 07:12 PM
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Mordecai
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quote:
Originally posted by Coincidence
Well, it's not all gone yet. But if they go, mourning is required - good newspapers are one of society's greater things and should be supported by *gasp* tax dollars when in trouble.


Ah yes, the state news service, that's a great idea. Who better to watchdog the state than the state itself?

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Old Post 03-23-2009 07:13 PM
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buddha's penis
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works okay in britain and canada, for two examples. our parliaments are no hugo chavez, it seems, though with too much more conservative government we'll lose the cbc.

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Old Post 03-23-2009 07:42 PM
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Mordecai
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Do the BBC and CBC have print newspapers? I honestly don't know.

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Old Post 03-23-2009 08:11 PM
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Coincidence
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quote:
Originally posted by Mordecai
Ah yes, the state news service, that's a great idea. Who better to watchdog the state than the state itself?

-m


Now that's what I call ineffective sarcasm. Get a clue, wontcha?

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Old Post 03-23-2009 08:13 PM
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Mordecai
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I do like the beeb's radio service, but of course I hear that on our own public supported radio(which I also like).

This is hilarious

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Old Post 03-23-2009 08:21 PM
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buddha's penis
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quote:
Originally posted by Mordecai
Do the BBC and CBC have print newspapers? I honestly don't know.

-m



holy shit, neither do i. i don't think so. our newspapers are clearly more biased than the cbc, to be honest, which probably has something to do with their decline as well. and the cbc is free! all you need is a television, and anyone can watch absurdly mundane canadian drama, the occasional disney movie, and hockey! it's the great equalizer!

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Old Post 03-23-2009 09:24 PM
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Mordecai
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Our newspapers vary a lot(and typically their bias depends on the bias of the person speaking about said bias). Interesting though, we've got public support for radio, television, but not newspapers. Why is that? Weird.
I can't see propping up newspapers with public funding as a terribly good idea though, especially not the physical print format which just makes less and less sense.

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Old Post 03-23-2009 10:02 PM
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Large Filipino
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Registered: Feb 2004
Location: in colorado somewhere!
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quote:
Originally posted by Brett
I think it's pretty fitting that the only ones really mourning the death of the Newspaper are the ones working in the industry.


You see it every time you go to a grocery store. right where the candies are so junior will throw a fit so stupid parent will give in so junior won't embarrass you. Right there all the goddamn tabloids who gives a flying fuck about Nichole Richie apparently a lot of people. When newspapers disappear what are you left with? The garbage rags the onion the gossip bullshit.
That is what we leave the majority idiots that can't even get that ridiculous "Blue Hippo" computer deal finance a piece of shit computer so you can fill it with viruses until you say fuck computers what a waste of time believe me I know a whole lot that fits in this category all they are left with to get any kind of news if they are paying attention is what little they contain on the tv besides the tattoo Barbie you simply must have.
Newspapers are important. You are in a bus or train someone leaves a paper you pick it up you read it you contain some information to what is going on around you. Now imagine if that paper someone picks up is The Onion. What a waste of a mind. It happens every day.
It's a big deal that newspapers are disappearing.
We already have enough idiots out there that think Bush was a Democrat.
Were gonna see more. A whole lot more.
Have you heard that schools may do away with writing cursive? Jesus Fuck man.
Were getting stupider by the day.

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Old Post 03-23-2009 10:30 PM
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buddha's penis
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quote:
Originally posted by Mordecai
Our newspapers vary a lot(and typically their bias depends on the bias of the person speaking about said bias). Interesting though, we've got public support for radio, television, but not newspapers. Why is that? Weird.
I can't see propping up newspapers with public funding as a terribly good idea though, especially not the physical print format which just makes less and less sense.

-m



i don't know, i think that as soon as any media outlet endorses a particular candidate, they're biased. i mean, by definition really. i just figure that if you're reading 'the tallahassee democrat' you know what you're getting, and it's not lacking a slant.
anyway, i agree that it would be stupid for a government to pay for a newspaper at this point, especially considering that article. i figure it probably never happened due to local politics and establishment or just management having a firm hold on the newspaper, while broadcast is already regulated and usually national.

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Old Post 03-23-2009 10:58 PM
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Mordecai
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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Denver
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Oh, I didn't mean to suggest that newspapers weren't biased, or even that the bias wasn't obvious or stated, but that hilariously there is always someone who thinks the bias is the other way (the far left wingnut who thinks the Tallahassee Democrat is a tool of the conservative establishment) though this is more prevalent when the bias isn't stated outright. A fine example being that my father terms the paper in his city a mouthpiece of the liberal media, nevermind that the city and county is largely conservative and the paper caters to that market.
Good point on the local market for papers, I guess I focus too much on the front section and the national/international content of it.

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Old Post 03-23-2009 11:43 PM
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Large Filipino
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Shit. All the good news is towards the last pages as a "footnote". People you can actually know are in those. Front pages are reserved for the rich white people in trouble..... or famous black people.

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Old Post 03-23-2009 11:54 PM
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mmmtravis
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Registered: May 2002
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quote:
Originally posted by Coincidence
if they go, mourning is required - good newspapers are one of society's greater things
explain

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Old Post 03-24-2009 12:25 AM
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ignatz mouse
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I would think the big mourners would be the advertisers, considering the "news hole" has just been getting smaller and smaller . . .

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Brett
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quote:
Originally posted by Mordecai
I can't see propping up newspapers with public funding as a terribly good idea though, especially not the physical print format which just makes less and less sense.

-m




this is what I was getting at. public funding to prop up a dying medium? And if you think the media is biased now, wait until they're Government controlled. If they're not biased they'll be heavily censored and toothless.

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Old Post 03-24-2009 04:51 AM
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Mordecai
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quote:
Originally posted by ignatz mouse
I would think the big mourners would be the advertisers, considering the "news hole" has just been getting smaller and smaller . . .


Wrong, the reason the newspapers are dying is because advertising dollars are drying up. I know that seems crazy when the paper is more ad than anything, but there are some problems, and they aren't problems for the advertisers.

1) Classifieds.
Yes, those dinky little shit ads really were a giant source of revenue, and now they're the fastest shrinking section of the paper.
2) Prices.
The newspapers may be giving up more space to ads, but they're being forced to charge less and less.
3) Print ads are dumb
You buy a print ad, you pay to send that add to 100,000 people, even if only 300 of them have any interest in that ad, and only 50 of them even have the wherewithal to buy that product. Terrible. You could throw out some google ads, and only pay for the ones that actually generate an interest. Only pay for ads that people see and are interested in. You'd have to be stupid not see the difference.

No, advertisers aren't likely shed any tears over the demise of newspaper, in fact they'll likely rejoice to finally be able to stop spending money on that crap just to reach that demographic that won't adopt technology.

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Old Post 03-24-2009 05:34 AM
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Mordecai
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http://theamericanscene.com/2009/03...rnalism-bailout

quote:
The circulation of the New York Times, for example, was just shy of 1.2 million in 1993. Now it can reach as high as 9 million in a day. The problem isnít readership, and it probably isnít content ó itís monetization. No matter what, most Americans have far easier and comparatively less expensive access to news that at any other time in history.


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Old Post 03-24-2009 06:41 AM
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Coincidence
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quote:
Originally posted by mmmtravis
explain

What don't you understand? Good newspapers are valuable for a lot of reasons, all more or less tied to the maintenance and evolution of the common standards in a democracy.
Broadcasters can never do the job of a free press. News isn't just news.
And the medium itself is important for spreading the word, as LF rightly observes. Which is why those fake capitalist newspapers are the bane of real newspapers.

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Old Post 03-24-2009 07:26 AM
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mmmtravis
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You said a lot there without really saying anything.

Give me some concrete "goodness" that we are losing with the death rattle of the newspaper. I'm not being obtuse, I'm not even suggesting you're wrong, I just waaaaaant to understand.

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