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Reduce minimum voting age to sixteen (16)?
Yes, sweet sixteen is the magic number.
No, and hell no!
There should be no minimum voting age.
Yes, but grasshoppa should pay a poal tax.
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J E B Stuart
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quote:
Originally posted by Oracular_Jinx
... I do, however, feel that a certain level of political understanding comes with working and living in "the real world" - if anything I would prefer to raise the age to 22. ...

You’ve got the right idea, Jinxy, but I’d improve on that. At the very least, what about a minimum voting age of 25? That’s the minimum age requirement to serve in Congress.

That said, 35 would be even better, IMHO. It also happens to be the minimum age to serve as POTUS.

I sense, however, that the dynamic in changing the minimum voting age is similar to Christmas bonuses. The first time you give that bonus, you’d damn sure better be prepared to give it from now on. I’d suspect moving the minimum voting age back up would be exceedingly more difficult than it was moving it down.

But, hey. I’m just an old fart. What the hell could I possibly know?

Amen.

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Old Post 08-11-2019 01:41 AM
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GoFuckYourselves!
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What the fuck does a sixteen-year-old know about life, about history, about governance, about finances, about working for a living, about providing for a family, etc., etc.? How moronic to allow someone of that age to vote.

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Old Post 08-11-2019 03:23 AM
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J E B Stuart
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Amen.

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" Future years will never know the seething hell and the black infernal background of countless minor scenes and interiors, (not the official surface courteousness of the Generals, not the few great battles) of the Secession war; and it is best they should not�the real war will never get in the books." ~ Walt Whitman

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Old Post 08-11-2019 03:29 AM
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GoFuckYourselves!
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Nuts!

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J E B Stuart
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An experiment, although I couldn’t see that it tended to “prove” anything substantive:



Amen.

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" Future years will never know the seething hell and the black infernal background of countless minor scenes and interiors, (not the official surface courteousness of the Generals, not the few great battles) of the Secession war; and it is best they should not�the real war will never get in the books." ~ Walt Whitman

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Old Post 08-11-2019 03:43 AM
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GoFuckYourselves!
#1 Asylum Dumbfuck!

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People who have a lot to learn -- and that's 16-year olds -- in my opinion, have no business deciding who will be running the government. There's a very good reason why you have to be at least 35 years old to be president. I know this is different from voting, but the idea is the same.

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Old Post 08-11-2019 03:56 AM
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J E B Stuart
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quote:
Originally posted by GoFuckYourselves!
...I know this is different from voting, but the idea is the same.

Indeed. And I note efforts to raise smoking ages, for example. Why, if a child is mature enough to vote upon turning 16, who are we to deny them the legal right to smoke should they so choose. 😁

Amen.

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" Future years will never know the seething hell and the black infernal background of countless minor scenes and interiors, (not the official surface courteousness of the Generals, not the few great battles) of the Secession war; and it is best they should not�the real war will never get in the books." ~ Walt Whitman

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Old Post 08-11-2019 04:37 AM
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GoFuckYourselves!
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Exactly. They're not mature enough to vote.

People who smoke are really and truly making a disastrous choice. Their head is in the sand. They'll pay a horrible price later on. 16-year olds can't understand this. Sad. (Yes, some can.)

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Old Post 08-11-2019 04:46 AM
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J E B Stuart
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And then there’s the age of majority. Can you imagine 16-year olds having the right to enter into legally binding contracts?

Amen.

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" Future years will never know the seething hell and the black infernal background of countless minor scenes and interiors, (not the official surface courteousness of the Generals, not the few great battles) of the Secession war; and it is best they should not�the real war will never get in the books." ~ Walt Whitman

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Old Post 08-11-2019 04:55 AM
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GoFuckYourselves!
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Indeed. Totally idiotic. And for obvious reasons.

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J E B Stuart
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Like shootin’ ducks in a barrel ...

Not that long ago, credit card companies were hittin’ the college campuses. It was easy pickin’ for these predatory lenders, pure, plain and simple.

Amen.

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" Future years will never know the seething hell and the black infernal background of countless minor scenes and interiors, (not the official surface courteousness of the Generals, not the few great battles) of the Secession war; and it is best they should not�the real war will never get in the books." ~ Walt Whitman

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Old Post 08-11-2019 05:28 AM
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GoFuckYourselves!
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Sad. So easy to take advantage of 16-year olds. Credit card companies and tobacco companies know exactly what they're doing/have done.

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Old Post 08-11-2019 05:41 AM
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Muffy
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Just to throw a cat amongst the pigeons, what about fucking? It has some pretty big consequences. Maybe if you're old enough to legally procreate, you're old enough to vote?
I still struggle with people being old enough to be drafted, but not old enough to have a beer. It seems like you can make a whole bunch of other potentially stupid decisions, yet you can't vote. Hrmmm.
I think we all get to a certain age when we know we know better than our 17 year old selves did, and when we see our children showing some of the same boneheadedness we showed at that age and think "you probably won't feel that way in 5-10 years", and then transate that in to young folk not being mature enough to vote. But I can't help but wonder if that's just because we're old, and our stupid choices didn't work out so well for us. However, that doesn't mean that everyone's stupid choices didn't work out for them. Young entrepreneurs probably made a lot of potentially stupid decisions, but they're really only stupid if they backfire. Younger people are less risk-averse. Maybe we need some of that? Alternatively, it could bring doom to us all

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Old Post 08-11-2019 08:21 PM
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J E B Stuart
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Or, maybe we just completely eliminate all barriers to voting and see what sticks? With free range voting, the political class would be defined simply as those who vote. Anyone could vote in any elections, anywhere. Obviously, voter ID would be rendered obsolete. And, savvy, well-funded, candidates facing tough fights in Maine could bus select voters in from Mississippi, for example, for Election Day. Better yet, those good Mississippi folk could just mail their ballots to the Maine Election Board. Heck, you could come over, pick out a slate of elections that interest you, and vote to your heart’s content.

And on and on and on.

Defining the political class ain’t perfect, Muffy. Never will be. This is because perfection is impossible. But, I’ll take the odds that common sense and wisdom are far more likely a product of age and experiences, rather than an accident of birth.

Amen.

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" Future years will never know the seething hell and the black infernal background of countless minor scenes and interiors, (not the official surface courteousness of the Generals, not the few great battles) of the Secession war; and it is best they should not�the real war will never get in the books." ~ Walt Whitman

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Old Post 08-16-2019 05:46 AM
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Muffy
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I mostly agree, pretty much because I hope age has brought me some wisdom and not just wrinkles and sore hips, but then I look at peoples political choices and think we're a society where the majority of people are dumbasses and that sadly makes me query democracy. TBH,, I like the notion of benevolent dictatorship, but don't think such a thing is possible, as in addition to being dumbasses, we're also assholes. But I have to accept that under the current system the majority view usually wins, ergo these dumbass assholes make political decisions for me, which is hard to swallow.

Your point re: free range voting seems a little strawman though. Tsk Tsk. It is completely unnecessary to resort to strawman arguments when you could just point to the well established practice of gerrymandering that you 'mericans seem to embrace.

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Old Post 08-16-2019 10:21 AM
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J E B Stuart
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Strawman? Muffy, you know me better than that. Your comments about benevolent dictatorship tells me you get the point (as you usually do), which is: Between those two extremes, where is the best place to draw the line across which lies membership in the political class?

Yeah. A dictatorship is, at least in theory, the most efficient form of governance, buuuuut....😉

Amen.

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" Future years will never know the seething hell and the black infernal background of countless minor scenes and interiors, (not the official surface courteousness of the Generals, not the few great battles) of the Secession war; and it is best they should not�the real war will never get in the books." ~ Walt Whitman

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Old Post 08-20-2019 09:12 PM
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Muffy
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Yeah, it's a big buuuuut. So we're stuck with the dumbass assholes making decisions, then. I guess that's a reasonable argument for better access to education for all, I don't mind the majority view differing from my own, as long as it comes from a rational and informed perspective. I'm also in favor of a compulsory civics exam before taking any sort of office. I'd wager a considerable amount of money that Trump would fail. Or bribe someone to take the test for him.

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Old Post 08-21-2019 12:12 AM
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J E B Stuart
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quote:
Originally posted by Muffy
...I'm also in favor of a compulsory civics exam before taking any sort of office. I'd wager a considerable amount of money that Trump would fail. Or bribe someone to take the test for him.

Muffy, I’d take that wager. Unfortunately, that jackass wonderaz stole my check, again. But, that’s neither here nor there. I am confident you and I would agree that the odds of such a test ever materializing are even less than those of De Blasio winning the 2020 Presidential Election.

Seriously, as for passing a compulsory civics exam to hold public office:

1) No question, it is a very sensible idea. Sadly, I doubt proponents would ever be able to move it past the righteous high-decibel shout downs that testing is wacist ‘n’ white supwemist.

2) Nevertheless, what if such a test became reality? Well, I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if naturalized citizens had higher average scores than U.S. college students.

Amen.

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" Future years will never know the seething hell and the black infernal background of countless minor scenes and interiors, (not the official surface courteousness of the Generals, not the few great battles) of the Secession war; and it is best they should not�the real war will never get in the books." ~ Walt Whitman

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