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Dacarlo
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Registered: Oct 2000
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Awww shucks Coin, you're such a sweet talker.

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Old Post 08-07-2014 11:20 PM
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Coincidence
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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Sun
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Ehh, you might be indirectly referring to the fact that the image doesn't show up. My rehosting service has let me down again.
But this attachment is impervious!

So, I love Dac, but as an author, I prefer Iain M. Banks, who is a genius and the suject of his last book is very fitting, considering his subsequent death.

It's about a society subliming, which means they move beyond to another and (probably) better dimension.

Attachment: hydrogensonata.jpg
This has been downloaded 67 time(s).

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Old Post 08-08-2014 10:21 AM
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Mordecai
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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Denver
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Always up for a Banks tale. Great loss there.

-m

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Old Post 10-01-2014 07:25 PM
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Coincidence
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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Sun
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I love this passage:

"The Simming Problem — in the circumstances, it was usually a bad sign when something was so singular and/or notorious it deserved to be capitalised — was of a moral nature, as the really meaty, chewy, most intractable problems generally were.

The Simming Problem boiled down to, How true to life was it morally justified to be?

Simulating the course of future events in a virtual environment to see what might happen back in reality, and tweaking one’s own actions accordingly in different runs of the simulated problem to see what difference these would make and to determine whether it was possible to refine those actions such that a desired outcome might be engineered, was hardly new; in a sense it long pre-dated AIs, computational matrices, substrates, computers and even the sort of mechanical or hydrological arrangements of ball-bearings, weights and springs or water, tubes and valves that enthusiastic optimists had once imagined might somehow model, say, an economy.

In a sense, indeed, such simulations first took place in the minds of only proto-sentient creatures, in the deep pre-historic age of any given species. If you weren’t being too strict about your definitions you could claim that the first simulations happened in the heads — or other appropriate body- or being-parts — of animals, or the equivalent, probably shortly after they developed a theory of mind and started to think about how to manipulate their peers to ensure access to food, shelter, mating opportunities or greater social standing.

Thoughts like, If I do this, then she does that… No; if I do that, making him do this… in creatures still mystified by fire, or unable to account for the existence of air, or ice, above their watery environment — or whatever — were arguably the start of the first simulations, no matter how dim, limited or blinded by ignorance and prejudice the whole process might be. They were, also, plausibly, the start of a line that led directly through discussions amongst village elders, through collegiate essays, flow charts, war games and the first computer programs to the sort of ultra-detailed simulations that could be shown — objectively, statistically, scientifically — to work.

Long before most species made it to the stars, they would be entirely used to the idea that you never made any significant societal decision with large-scale or long-term consequences without running simulations of the future course of events, just to make sure you were doing the right thing. Simming problems at that stage were usually constrained by not having the calculational power to run a sufficiently detailed analysis, or disagreements regarding what the initial conditions ought to be.

Later, usually round about the time when your society had developed the sort of processal tech you could call Artificial Intelligence without blushing, the true nature of the Simming Problem started to appear.

Once you could reliably model whole populations within your simulated environment, at the level of detail and complexity that meant individuals within that simulation had some sort of independent existence, the question became: how god-like, and how cruel, did you want to be?

Most problems, even seemingly really tricky ones, could be handled by simulations which happily modelled slippery concepts like public opinion or the likely reactions of alien societies by the appropriate use of some especially cunning and devious algorithms; whole populations of slightly different simulative processes could be bred, evolved and set to compete against each other to come up with the most reliable example employing the most decisive short-cuts to accurately modelling, say, how a group of people would behave; nothing more processor-hungry than the right set of equations would — once you’d plugged the relevant data in — produce a reliable estimate of how that group of people would react to a given stimulus, whether the group represented a tiny ruling clique of the most powerful, or an entire civilisation.

But not always. Sometimes, if you were going to have any hope of getting useful answers, there really was no alternative to modelling the individuals themselves, at the sort of scale and level of complexity that meant they each had to exhibit some kind of discrete personality, and that was where the Problem kicked in.

Once you’d created your population of realistically reacting and — in a necessary sense — cogitating individuals, you had — also in a sense — created life. The particular parts of whatever computational substrate you’d devoted to the problem now held beings; virtual beings capable of reacting so much like the back-in-reality beings they were modelling — because how else were they to do so convincingly without also hoping, suffering, rejoicing, caring, loving and dreaming? — that by most people’s estimation they had just as much right to be treated as fully recognised moral agents as did the originals in the Real, or you yourself.

If the prototypes had rights, so did the faithful copies, and by far the most fundamental right that any creature ever possessed or cared to claim was the right to life itself, on the not unreasonable grounds that without that initial right, all others were meaningless.

By this reasoning, then, you couldn’t just turn off your virtual environment and the living, thinking creatures it contained at the completion of a run or when a simulation had reached the end of its useful life; that amounted to genocide, and however much it might feel like serious promotion from one’s earlier primitive state to realise that you had, in effect, become the kind of cruel and pettily vengeful god you had once, in your ignorance, feared, it was still hardly the sort of mature attitude or behaviour to be expected of a truly civilised society, or anything to be proud of.

Some civs, admittedly, simply weren’t having any of this, and routinely bred whole worlds, even whole galaxies, full of living beings which they blithely consigned to oblivion the instant they were done with them, sometimes, it seemed, just for the glorious fun of it, and to annoy their more ethically angst-tangled co-civilisationalists, but they — or at least those who admitted to the practice, rather than doing it but keeping quiet about it — were in a tiny minority, as well as being not entirely welcome at all the highest tables of the galactic community, which was usually precisely where the most ambitious and ruthless species/civs most desired to be.

Others reckoned that as long as the termination was instant, with no warning and therefore no chance that those about to be switched off could suffer, then it didn’t really matter. The wretches hadn’t existed, they’d been brought into existence for a specific, contributory purpose, and now they were nothing again; so what?

Most people, though, were uncomfortable with such moral brusqueness, and took their responsibilities in the matter more seriously. They either avoided creating virtual populations of genuinely living beings in the first place, or only used sims at that sophistication and level of detail on a sustainable basis, knowing from the start that they would be leaving them running indefinitely, with no intention of turning the environment and its inhabitants off at any point.

Whether these simulated beings were really really alive, and how justified it was to create entire populations of virtual creatures just for your own convenience under any circumstances, and whether or not — if/once you had done so — you were sort of duty-bound to be honest with your creations at some point and straight out tell them that they weren’t really real, and existed at the whim of another order of beings altogether — one with its metaphorical finger hovering over an Off switch capable of utterly and instantly obliterating their entire universe… well, these were all matters which by general and even relieved consent were best left to philosophers. As was the ever-vexing question, How do we know we’re not in a simulation?

There were sound, seemingly base-reality metamathematically convincing and inescapable reasons for believing that all concerned in this ongoing debate about simulational ethics were genuinely at the most basic level of reality, the one that definitely wasn’t running as a virtual construct on somebody else’s substrate, but — if these mooted super-beings had been quite extraordinarily clever and devious — such seemingly reliable and reassuring signs might all just be part of the illusion.

There was also the Argument of Increasing Decency, which basically held that cruelty was linked to stupidity and that the link between intelligence, imagination, empathy and good-behaviour-as-it-was-generally-understood — i.e. not being cruel to others — was as profound as these matters ever got. This strongly implied that beings capable of setting up a virtuality so convincing, so devious, so detailed that it was capable of fooling entities as smart as — say — Culture Minds must be so shatteringly, intoxicatingly clever they pretty much had to be decent, agreeable and highly moral types themselves. (So; much like Culture Minds, then, except more so.)

But that too might be part of the set-up, and the clear positive correlation between beings of greater intellectual capacity taking over from lesser ones — while still respecting their rights, of course — and the gradual diminution of violence and suffering over civilisationally significant periods of time might also be the result of a trick.

A bit, after some adjustments for scale, like the trick of seeding another society with the ideas for a holy book that appeared to tell the truth on several levels but which was basically just part of an experiment, the Contents May Differ thought, as it reviewed the results of the latest sim runs.

The sims it was setting up and letting run were all trying to answer the relatively simple question, How much difference will it make if the Gzilt find out the Book of Truth is a fake?

And the answer appeared to be: Who the fuck knows?

Once you started to think that the only way to model a population accurately would be to read the individual mind-states of every single person within the real thing — something even more immoral than it was impractical — it was probably time to try another approach entirely.

As a good, decent, caring and responsible Culture Mind, the Contents May Differ would never run a sim of the Gzilt people at the individual level to find out anyway, even if it could have, and — apart from anything else — had decided some time ago that even resorting to such desperate measures wouldn’t solve anything in any case. Because there were two Problems: the Simming Problem and the Chaos Problem.

The Chaos Problem meant that in certain situations you could run as many simulations as you liked, and each would produce a meaningful result, but taken as a whole there would be no discernible pattern to them, and so no lesson to be drawn or obvious course laid out to pursue; it would all depend so exquisitely on exactly how you had chosen to tweak the initial conditions at the start of each run that, taken together, they would add up to nothing more useful than the realisation that This Is A Tricky One.

The real result, the one that mattered, out there in reality, would almost certainly very closely resemble one of your simulated results, but there would have been no way at any stage of the process to have determined exactly or even approximately which one, and that rendered the whole enterprise almost entirely futile; you ended up having to use other, much less reliable methods to work out what was going to happen.

These included using one’s own vast intelligence, pooled with the equally vast intelligences of one’s peers, to access the summed total of galactic history and analyse, compare and contrast the current situation relative to similar ones from the past. Given the sort of clear, untrammelled, devastatingly powerful thinking AIs and particularly Minds were capable of, this could be a formidably accurate and — compared to every other method available — relatively reliable strategy. Its official title was Constructive Historical Integrative Analysis.

In the end, though, there was another name the Minds used, amongst themselves, for this technique, which was Just Guessing."

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Old Post 10-01-2014 08:32 PM
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Brett
Say no to edit rape

Registered: Jun 2008
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England's Hidden Reverse

a book about Coil, Current 93, and Nurse With Wound. Good, but kind of just... ends. I thought it was interesting how relatively normal their taste in music was considering how far out their own music usually was. It's going back in print, so I wonder if it's been updated as the two main members of Coil have died since.

Wolf in White Van by John Darnielle

Written by the guy from the band The Mountain Goats. A book about a disfigured man who writes a D&D-esque game that leads to the death of 2 of its players.

How Music Works by David Byrne


the Talking Heads guy. Somewhat randomly put together, but an explanation of why music technology as evolved the way it has and how it has often affected how music itself is later written.

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Old Post 10-04-2014 01:34 AM
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Brett
Say no to edit rape

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making an attempt at Palahniuk's "Beautiful You." I couldn't even finish Doomed.

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Old Post 10-22-2014 01:30 PM
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Coincidence
Counterfeit

Registered: Apr 2004
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Doomed was bad and got worse towards the end. You didn't miss anything.

Although I have in certain cases made references to Hell's ever rising sea of spem.

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Old Post 10-22-2014 06:29 PM
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Brett
Say no to edit rape

Registered: Jun 2008
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yeah, I got to where she killed her grandfather by beating his dick with a book before I decided to quit. It didn't help that I didn't really remember Damned either.


New one's good so far; I'm cautiously optimistic.

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Old Post 10-23-2014 02:33 AM
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Coincidence
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What, I was talking about Damned.
I'm glad it's not my fault, it's just a pretty forgettable book.

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Old Post 10-23-2014 10:35 AM
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Brett
Say no to edit rape

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finished it.


it was.... okay. Better than his last few books. It's a bit too on the nose and I think his attempt at commentary was a bit too broad for him to handle.

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Old Post 10-25-2014 02:13 AM
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Brett
Say no to edit rape

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Nico: The End by James Young


I was disappointed that it wasn't a full biography, but instead covers her 80s career when she's in full on junkie mode (and the author was her touring keyboardist.) Otherwise better than I thought as it's a bit Spinal Tap-ish in parts.

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Old Post 11-06-2014 02:31 AM
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Coincidence
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Have you read any Layne Staley books?

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Old Post 11-06-2014 09:52 AM
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Brett
Say no to edit rape

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nope. I didn't know there was any.

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Old Post 11-06-2014 10:29 AM
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Coincidence
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Apparently, "two books have been written about him, both authored by Adriana Rubio—Layne Staley: Angry Chair and the more recent, Layne Staley: Get Born Again".

I thought about him because I just rediscovered my Mad Season CD in some pile. He sings really good, if you were in doubt.

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Old Post 11-06-2014 01:15 PM
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Brett
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Burnt Tongues


an anthology of short stories curated by Chuck Palahniuk of authors mostly writing just like him. Some of it's pretty good, some undercooked.

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Old Post 11-11-2014 07:20 PM
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plum
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quote:
Originally posted by Coincidence
Apparently, "two books have been written about him, both authored by Adriana Rubio—Layne Staley: Angry Chair and the more recent, Layne Staley: Get Born Again".

I thought about him because I just rediscovered my Mad Season CD in some pile. He sings really good, if you were in doubt.



Wow, those books are ridicliously priced, with universally lousy reviews.

I liked his singing too. Most artists achieve greatness despite their addictions, not because of them.

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Old Post 12-08-2014 04:04 AM
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GoFuckYourselves!
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"Here I Am" by Jonathan Safran Foer.

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Old Post 12-06-2016 11:12 PM
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J E B Stuart
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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Beyond Mason-Dixon Line
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Thumbs up President James Buchanan: A Biography ~ Philip S. Klein

I just read "President James Buchanan: A Biography" by Philip S. Klein. I've noticed over the years that the 15th President is frequently singled out as the worst of them all. And I've noticed a common thread linking those commentators:

a) The War of Northern Aggression was Buchanan's fault, making him the worst President ever; and

b) The "worst President" tag is set in stone and, therefore, is not open to question, discussion, or debate, i.e., it's historical gospel.

Something began dawning upon me regarding that "worst President" tag as I drew closer to the end of the book. Can you say, "Saul Alinsky"?

The book is by no means an attempt to put buff and shine on the President's life. Rather, the author built his story upon credible facts. It also brought into serious question the merits of the not qualified and more qualified silliness slung around during the last Presidential campaign. President Buchanan was the most "qualified" President we have ever had. Yet, a preponderance of the "experts" continue to perpetuate the "worst ever" nonsense. Hmmmm.

Politics back then were frequently nasty, malicious and even violent. Just like they are today. And the bias, dishonesty and maliciousness of the media in those days was every bit as pervasive as today.

In sum, this is a very worthwhile read, especially for those seeking perspective and understanding beyond the canned narratives afforded by The Jerry Mahoney League of Righteous Historians and Most Highly High Opinionator Dictators.

Amen.

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" Future years will never know the seething hell and the black infernal background of countless minor scenes and interiors, (not the official surface courteousness of the Generals, not the few great battles) of the Secession war; and it is best they should not�the real war will never get in the books." ~ Walt Whitman

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Old Post 08-24-2017 08:20 AM
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Coincidence
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You are my only source of knowledge about civil war usa.

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Old Post 08-24-2017 06:30 PM
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J E B Stuart
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Thanks, man. As my life speeds ever nearer to its conclusion, I have found those times to be more relevant and important than ever.

Amen.

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" Future years will never know the seething hell and the black infernal background of countless minor scenes and interiors, (not the official surface courteousness of the Generals, not the few great battles) of the Secession war; and it is best they should not�the real war will never get in the books." ~ Walt Whitman

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Old Post 08-27-2017 08:51 PM
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Coincidence
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History will do that. I guess it makes death easier that we are just repeating patterns.

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Old Post 08-27-2017 11:43 PM
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Oracular_Jinx
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Sleeping Beauties (King) but I finished ready player one in mere hours. 10/10 enjoyed geeky nostalgia. Go read it if you haven't.

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Old Post 02-23-2018 07:42 PM
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Coincidence
Counterfeit

Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Sun
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Yeah I should read that. It was all the hype at one point.

I read
Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein

At fucking last, it's been my homework for years. Book was good and had a surprising amount of sex and metaphysics for a book from 1961.

It's pretty much hippie philosophy all the way. With a dash of dogmatic capitalism.

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Old Post 02-24-2018 11:34 AM
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