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J E B Stuart
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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Beyond Mason-Dixon Line
Posts: 35010

Amen.

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" Future years will never know the seething hell and the black infernal background of countless minor scenes and interiors, (not the official surface courteousness of the Generals, not the few great battles) of the Secession war; and it is best they should not�the real war will never get in the books." ~ Walt Whitman

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Old Post 12-07-2019 12:38 AM
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J E B Stuart
Administrator

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Beyond Mason-Dixon Line
Posts: 35010

I promise I’ve tried. I’ve really, really tried. But, try as I might, I am unable to conceive of any possible way for Schiff, Nader, Pelosi, et al, to put enough lipstick on this impeachment turd to make it kissable.

Wowzer.

Amen.

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" Future years will never know the seething hell and the black infernal background of countless minor scenes and interiors, (not the official surface courteousness of the Generals, not the few great battles) of the Secession war; and it is best they should not�the real war will never get in the books." ~ Walt Whitman

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Old Post 12-10-2019 09:54 PM
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J E B Stuart
Administrator

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Beyond Mason-Dixon Line
Posts: 35010

Amen.

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" Future years will never know the seething hell and the black infernal background of countless minor scenes and interiors, (not the official surface courteousness of the Generals, not the few great battles) of the Secession war; and it is best they should not�the real war will never get in the books." ~ Walt Whitman

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Old Post 12-11-2019 01:36 AM
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Muffy
Crika bait

Registered: Oct 2007
Location:
Posts: 6016

quote:
Originally posted by J E B Stuart
I promise I’ve tried. I’ve really, really tried. But, try as I might, I am unable to conceive of any possible way for Schiff, Nader, Pelosi, et al, to put enough lipstick on this impeachment turd to make it kissable.

Wowzer.

Amen.


If you use Nixon and Clinton as a benchmark, then it looks quite legit IMO.

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Old Post 12-11-2019 05:21 AM
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GoFuckYourselves!
#1 Asylum Dumbfuck!

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Dumbfucksville!
Posts: 18802

Of course it's legitimate, Muffy.

Last week over 500 law professors and other legal scholars signed an open letter stating that Donald Trump engaged in impeachable conduct. The letter, which continues to gain signatures from faculty across the nation, was published by the advocacy group Protect Democracy, after a December 4, 2019 hearing before the House Judiciary Committee.

At that hearing, four law professors offered their opinions about the legal basis for the possible impeachment of the President. Democrats called three constitutional experts who argued that the President’s behavior involved impeachable offenses: Noah Feldman from Harvard, Pamela Karlan from Stanford, and Michael Gerhardt from the University of North Carolina. Republicans relied on Jonathan Turley, from George Washington University, to testify against impeachment, a feat of noteworthy pliability given that it contradicted Turley’s testimony in favor of the impeachment of Bill Clinton.

The scholars stated they did not reach their conclusion lightly but ultimately decided “there is overwhelming evidence that President Trump betrayed his oath of office by seeking to use presidential power to pressure a foreign government to help him distort an American election, for his personal and political benefit, at the direct expense of national security interests as determined by Congress. His conduct is precisely the type of threat to our democracy that the Founders feared when they included the remedy of impeachment in the Constitution.”

The letter cites several facts made public to date that amount to “overwhelming evidence” that what the President did is impeachable and ends with the statement that “if the House of Representatives impeached the President for the conduct described here and the Senate voted to remove him, they would be acting well within their constitutional powers.”

Although scholars often write open letters to weigh in on various matters of public interest and controversy, few issues have the importance of a potential impeachment of the President so the consequences of this letter are certain to be of interest to higher education leaders and the public at large. Here are four initial observations about what to expect.

First, letters of this type are an entirely appropriate activity for faculty engagement. Offering well-informed opinions about vital public matters in which scholars have particular expertise is to be expected, and should be encouraged. Academics have every right to express such opinions, and the public ultimately benefits from that right being exercised and protected.

Second, it is highly likely that a second letter claiming there is insufficient basis for the impeachment of Donald Trump will be published by well-qualified legal scholars who conclude there is inadequate evidence that the President engaged in impeachable behavior. That opinion also deserves consideration and ultimately serves the public good as well.

Third, the letter — and its strong support in favor of impeachment — is unlikely to change many opinions. It already is being dismissed as a partisan attack launched by typically left-leaning academics who have had nothing but enmity for Trump since the outset of his presidency. After the Judiciary Committee’s first impeachment hearing, Louie Gohmert (R-Tex) warned parents not to send their “babies” to Harvard’s or Stanford’s Law School. The chances that someone with Gohmert’s track record will have any influence on parents considering Harvard or Stanford for their children’s education is... how best to put this... vanishingly small.

Finally, university administrators will be put to the test over this letter, and they will need to be prepared to protect the right of their faculty to express what some people will criticize as biased opinions or unwarranted political advocacy. Particularly for leaders of public institutions in red states, they can expect to be called on the carpet by state legislators and asked why tax payers should be subsidizing partisan political statements by faculty.

The signatories of last week’s letter are spread across the nation, and many hail from states — like Missouri, Texas, Florida and Oklahoma — with Republican-majority legislatures that have shown no hesitancy in the past to try to punish their public universities for faculty views the legislators have disliked. Presidents and chancellors of those universities will almost surely be challenged about the views expressed by law professors in last week’s letter. They need to stand tall for those faculty and defend them against attack.

From here.

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Old Post 12-11-2019 08:25 AM
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J E B Stuart
Administrator

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Beyond Mason-Dixon Line
Posts: 35010

Jeebus. Over five hunnerd “law professors and other legal scholars”? Thanks to them, I don’t have to think for myself anymore. What we have here is obviously a trumpioid crisis.

I should’ve listened to the uncannily prescient Maxine all along:



Amen.

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" Future years will never know the seething hell and the black infernal background of countless minor scenes and interiors, (not the official surface courteousness of the Generals, not the few great battles) of the Secession war; and it is best they should not�the real war will never get in the books." ~ Walt Whitman

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Old Post 12-11-2019 01:32 PM
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Muffy
Crika bait

Registered: Oct 2007
Location:
Posts: 6016

quote:
Originally posted by J E B Stuart
Jeebus. Over five hunnerd “law professors and other legal scholars”? Thanks to them, I don’t have to think for myself ...
Amen.



...so, you think the conversation was fine and didn't indicate aid would be held back unless x happened? Or do you think that even if that was the case that it's not worthy of impeachment? Or do you think that because both parties seem to do dodgy shit all the time, that it's acceptable?

Just trying to get your perspective, not attack your views.

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Old Post 12-13-2019 04:26 AM
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J E B Stuart
Administrator

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Beyond Mason-Dixon Line
Posts: 35010

quote:
Originally posted by Muffy
...so, you think the conversation was fine and didn't indicate aid would be held back unless x happened? Or do you think that even if that was the case that it's not worthy of impeachment? Or do you think that because both parties seem to do dodgy shit all the time, that it's acceptable? ...

The conversation was fine. Period.

Since we’re asking questions, for which candidate would you vote if you could?

Amen.

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" Future years will never know the seething hell and the black infernal background of countless minor scenes and interiors, (not the official surface courteousness of the Generals, not the few great battles) of the Secession war; and it is best they should not�the real war will never get in the books." ~ Walt Whitman

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Old Post 12-13-2019 04:50 AM
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Muffy
Crika bait

Registered: Oct 2007
Location:
Posts: 6016

Gosh, that's a hard question. In an ideal world, I'd vote for Bernie, as NZers lean a lot more to the left than the USA does and we already have socialized health care, education, and regulations protecting the environment, etc. If I actually had a chance to vote, however, I'd probably concede that it would be a wasted vote as the USA isn't ready to dive right into that can of worms.

I'd look for something that less reflected how things are done in NZ, and more who I thought would be good for the USA. That's difficult as I see flaws in all the candidates and can't quite get my head around the extremely polar views you Americans have (In NZ, there's really not that much difference between the two major parties and any sharp divergence in view is ameliorated by the fact we have MMP).

Financially, I like the republicans, from a social responsibility perspective, I like the dems... I guess my vote would probably be determined by how good the economy was v how many people were dying of inadequate access to health care. I also refuse to support anyone that wants to disarm Americans (but am agreeable to sensible restrictions).

Biden is too much of the same old same old, Bloomberg just seems to have a giant Trump hatred and not much else, Warren is batshit insane, Bernie too lefty for y'all, I don't think America will cope with another President who is divisive simply because of their colour/ethnicity/gender, so that rules out a lot of the more sensible candidates that don't want to just throw money away.

TBH, after reading their political views I became rather interested in seeing whether the Republicans would put forward someone other than Trump.

I'm probably a never Trumper. I've tried to be fair and understand him, but he just exudes qualities I dislike and don't want him being used as an exemplar of leadership.

If I was really, really forced to pick out of the current crop, I'd probably go Biden because he's a white male and known brand, but I would prefer a change.

I actually think you need an independent, or entirely new system, but that would be a total clusterfuck and on the heels of Trump would probably end very, very badly.

Thank goodness in my situation it's only a theoretical question as I suspect I'd get an ulcer were it a reality.

All your politicians suck.

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Old Post 12-13-2019 06:12 AM
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Muffy
Crika bait

Registered: Oct 2007
Location:
Posts: 6016

And yes, I know my views are kind of contradictory when it comes to social v fiscal responsibility. Back when I studied this stuff my two favorite books were Anarchy, State and Utopia (by Nozick, diehard libertarian) and A Theory of Justice (Rawls, an egalitarian with strong social justice leanings). Go figure :/

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Old Post 12-13-2019 06:38 AM
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